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Sean Reid's 24/25 mm lens comparisons

scott kirkpatrick

By scott kirkpatrick
in Digital Forum

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scott kirkpatrick

scott kirkpatrick

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are now posted on his review site, http://www.reidreviews.com . And there is a lot to think about.

 

Sean, the indoor pictures labelled Plattsburgh, NY are very striking. There is no indication of how they were processed -- in camera B/W jpeg (as with some outdoor shots), or JFI profiles, or ...? Comparing them with some interior shots that you showed from the RD-1 with a 21 mm (?) taken in Mass last year, they are much stronger. Sort of like comparing work done with 35 mm Tri-X with the same project in 6x7. I think it makes your point about giving a feeling that we previously associated with medium format film.

 

Maybe you can shed some light on a puzzle -- what frame lines come up on an M6 or M7 when the Elmarit 24 is installed? Those have no 24mm frame lines, and it would have been puzzling to get a 35mm frame, as the lens came to market many years before the M8 was committed.

 

regards,

 

scott

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thisaccountisdeleted

thisaccountisdeleted

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Maybe you can shed some light on a puzzle -- what frame lines come up on an M6 or M7 when the Elmarit 24 is installed?

 

if it brings up the 24/35 lines on the M8, it'll bring up 35/135 on the M6 and M7.

 

the framelines are chosen by the length of one of the couplings on the lens. it's the one approximately opposite the red dot. the shortest is the first set (24/35 on M8, 35/135 on M6/M7), the middle (50/75), and the longest (28/90).

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scott kirkpatrick

scott kirkpatrick

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if it brings up the 24/35 lines on the M8, it'll bring up 35/135 on the M6 and M7.

 

the framelines are chosen by the length of one of the couplings on the lens. it's the one approximately opposite the red dot. the shortest is the first set (24/35 on M8, 35/135 on M6/M7), the middle (50/75), and the longest (28/90).

 

right, but why would they do that when the lens was first announced? Because they already had a plan for the M8 with its 1.3x factor?

 

scott

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thisaccountisdeleted

thisaccountisdeleted

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right, but why would they do that when the lens was first announced? Because they already had a plan for the M8 with its 1.3x factor?

 

sorry.. i missed the real question in your question..

 

i imagine that Leica just opted to use the shortest length (24/35; 35/135) on all lenses outside the "classic" framelines at the time of manufacture. i don't have a 21mm to test, but i imagine it brings up the same lines.

 

in hindsight, they should have triggered the 28/90 so they could be filed back in the future if need be.

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artur5

artur5

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The Leica Elmarit 21 brings the 28/90 pair and the Zeiss Biogon 21 brings the 50/75.

Unfortunately for me ( having the Zeiss) I can't file the Biogon to make it like the Elmarit because the 28/90 flange is longer. Instead I should add 2mm. of metal flange. Not easy, really.

I'm still wondering why Zeiss did this weird choice on the frame lines for the Biogon 21 (50/75) and Biogon 25 (28/90)

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ho_co

ho_co

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... M6 [&] M7 ... have no 24mm frame lines, and it would have been puzzling to get a 35mm frame, as the lens came to market many years before the M8 was committed.

Scott--

Good point! It was similar with the 28mm lenses as well. I assume the earliest ones must have keyed the widest frame on the then-current M cameras, but then one day Leica put out a note that future 28mm lenses would key the 90mm frames. Sounded crazy, and Leica gave no explanation.

 

Then a couple years later, they introduced the M5. As you know, the metering instructions for the M5 were to use for metering the finder element next smaller than the frame used for field of view. So even though the M5 didn't have a frame for the 28, it did show the field of 28's primary metering sensitivity, the 90mm frame. (The change in which frames were keyed coincided with the introduction of the first 28mm lens that cleared the metering arm of the yet-to-be introduced M5.)

 

In the case of the M5 and 28/90 frames, the matter was clarified when the new camera came out. Looks as if that may be the case here as well.

 

I guess the alternative would have been to modify the 24mm lens to key the right frame when you sent the lens in for zebra-coding. Can you imagine the squawking we'd have heard then? :)

 

--HC

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grober

grober

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The deuce of it is this: I love my 25mm Biogon but am completely frustrated by its lack of 6-bit coding and also it's inability to automatically pull up the more usable 24mm frame.

 

Zeiss in Germany will solve the latter problem by changing the mount to a Zeiss 35mm mount for 40 Euros, plus r/t shipping and possible added tariffs. The 35mm mount, when used on an M8, brings with it the desired 24mm frame. As to the former: hand-coding a lens just isn't a satisfactory solution IMHO.

 

Would that someone in the USA would offer a professional service of coding non-Leica lenses, he sighed. Every possible source seems consumed with knotty legal issues at present with no hope in sight.

 

Lacking a reasonable solution, this lovely Biogon may be headed to the block marked eBay.

 

-g.

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sean_reid

sean_reid

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are now posted on his review site, http://www.reidreviews.com . And there is a lot to think about.

 

Sean, the indoor pictures labelled Plattsburgh, NY are very striking. There is no indication of how they were processed -- in camera B/W jpeg (as with some outdoor shots), or JFI profiles, or ...? Comparing them with some interior shots that you showed from the RD-1 with a 21 mm (?) taken in Mass last year, they are much stronger. Sort of like comparing work done with 35 mm Tri-X with the same project in 6x7. I think it makes your point about giving a feeling that we previously associated with medium format film.

 

Maybe you can shed some light on a puzzle -- what frame lines come up on an M6 or M7 when the Elmarit 24 is installed? Those have no 24mm frame lines, and it would have been puzzling to get a 35mm frame, as the lens came to market many years before the M8 was committed.

 

regards,

 

scott

 

Hi Scott,

 

Thanks. Except for the pictures that are labeled otherwise, the B&W pictures are all C1 conversions with JFI profiles. I think the pictures you're thinking of from Mass. last year were made with the Ricoh GRD. In any case, though, the M8 files definitely do remind me of MF film. Now to solve the electrical glitch.

 

As others have posted already, a 24 brings up 35/135 lines on the film M cameras. How are you liking the M8 now that yours has finally arrived?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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sean_reid

sean_reid

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The deuce of it is this: I love my 25mm Biogon but am completely frustrated by its lack of 6-bit coding and also it's inability to automatically pull up the more usable 24mm frame.

 

Zeiss in Germany will solve the latter problem by changing the mount to a Zeiss 35mm mount for 40 Euros, plus r/t shipping and possible added tariffs. The 35mm mount, when used on an M8, brings with it the desired 24mm frame. As to the former: hand-coding a lens just isn't a satisfactory solution IMHO.

 

Would that someone in the USA would offer a professional service of coding non-Leica lenses, he sighed. Every possible source seems consumed with knotty legal issues at present with no hope in sight.

 

Lacking a reasonable solution, this lovely Biogon may be headed to the block marked eBay.

 

-g.

 

Don't rule out the possibility that Leica will add a menu item so that one can manually specify the lens mounted. That ZM 25 is a wonderful lens.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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pelikan1931

pelikan1931

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Sean, do you know anything about the R-D1 replacement? Cheers.

 

 

... or for that matter a Zeiss Ikon digital RF?

Zeiss is certainly rolling out lots of lens, is that a prelude to something?

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Guest guy_mancuso

Guest guy_mancuso

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Don't rule out the possibility that Leica will add a menu item so that one can manually specify the lens mounted. That ZM 25 is a wonderful lens.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

 

Have to agree with Sean here there has been requests for this to Leica on implementing a menu item to select your lens in the menu items which would bring in the Cyan lens corrrecting factor for the wide angles. There is also other requests that have been mentioned that may just come to life in future firmware. This camera is far from being fully baked and I am sure leica is looking at and working on other options and corrections for the camera.

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wparsonsgisnet

wparsonsgisnet

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I read this new review over the weekend and was delighted to see that Sean prefers the 24mm Leica lens. I bought this lens right after reading his earlier review comparing the Leica to the Zeiss offerings in this length.

 

I used this lens for a very enstnsive studio shoot of dancers yesterday, and I is terrific.

 

Now, where is my software to remove the vignetting and cyan-drift (copyright, 2006, ReaidReviews [my joke, but Sean did coin the phrase])????

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sean_reid

sean_reid

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Hi Bill,

 

The Leica is my favorite of the three although all three of those lenses are very impressive and the Zeiss' technical performance, in particular, is really outstanding. Yes, I coined the unusual "cyan drift" as well as "DRF" which hasn't caught on much yet. I've dreamed up other crazy terms for these articles but I can't remember them all.

 

"Red Vignetting" is the most accurate term but it isn't well-matched to what we actually *see* in the pictures. What one sees is a gradual drift towards cyan as the eye moves from the center of the picture out towards the corners.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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sean_reid

sean_reid

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Have to agree with Sean here there has been requests for this to Leica on implementing a menu item to select your lens in the menu items which would bring in the Cyan lens corrrecting factor for the wide angles. There is also other requests that have been mentioned that may just come to life in future firmware. This camera is far from being fully baked and I am sure leica is looking at and working on other options and corrections for the camera.

 

As Guy knows well, I've made detailed suggestions to Leica (in articles, e-mails and phone conferences) that would deal with the following.

 

1. Faster access to ISO setting.

2. Faster access to EV setting.

3. Faster access to WB setting.

4. A menu option that allows one to specify which lens is mounted on the camera (from the existing 6-bit coding lookup table) so that the lens-specific in-camera corrections can be performed.

 

These are all discussed in the M8 review series.

 

We'll see what happens. <G>

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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