F1 Notcilux for M8.2 Suggestions

[mzcloud]

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I am in Japan right now and have seen quite a few F1 Notcilux versions for sale. Mostly in the $3000 - $5000 USD range. I also saw 4-5 Noctilux F1.2 that are in the range of $7K - $12K.

 

There are few versions and would appreciate if you can provide me some details as to the any differences. If there is not a big difference in the different Noctilux F1 versions, I'll go for a cheaper alternative.

 

Thanks,

 

Michael

[usayit]

Someone should confirm but I believe the earlier version, f/1.2, is aspherical while the newer f/1 is not.

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[Jeff S]

Noctilux 1.2/50

 

Noctilux 1/50

 

NX095, part 1

 

NX095, part 2

 

 

Jeff

[ezc203]

From my research, the f/1.2 Noctilux is an inferior lens, but is the "original", older model and thus gaining value. But more knowledgable members on this forum may want to correct me?

[Ecaton]

I am in Japan right now and have seen quite a few F1 Notcilux versions for sale. Mostly in the $3000 - $5000 USD range. I also saw 4-5 Noctilux F1.2 that are in the range of $7K - $12K.

 

There are few versions and would appreciate if you can provide me some details as to the any differences. If there is not a big difference in the different Noctilux F1 versions, I'll go for a cheaper alternative.

 

Thanks,

 

Michael

 

Could you pick up a mint one for USD 3000 for me;), I'd refund you? On a more serious note, I think everything below USD 4500 is an attractive price, assuming the lens is in excellent condition.

[carstenw]

All 50/1 versions are optically identical. The older 50/1.2 generally has more variance, but I have heard told that if you can get a really great copy, they are even better than the 50/1. I have never seen proof though. I would go for the best 50/1 combination of cheap and in good condition. Make sure to test it for focus shift, which some have. Put it on a tripod, focus wide open, and without touching the focus, shoot at f/1, f/2 and f/4, and see if all are sharp where focused.

[WestMichigan]

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Hi CarstenW,

sincerely, I have a doubt as to whether 'Focus Shift' is a phenomena dependent upon 'Sample Variation' - ie: Encountering it is dependent upon whether an individual copy of the lens produces the effect. My personal understanding is that 'Focus Shift' upon aperture change is a Physical Property of the Optical Design of a Lens which has a Fast Aperture as a Feature. It does seem to be the case that variability in manufacture and especially variability in the focus mechanisms of both cameras and lenses do create the phenomena of some lens/camera combinations who's variabilities happen to cancel each other out and create the operational experience of 'lacking focus shift'. Further, it's possible to have camera &/or lens adjusted to create a 'lacking focus shift' effect, but doing so creates Focusing Errors for other lenses due to their Focusing Accuracy depending on not 'mis-adjusting' the focusing mechanism's mechanics.

 

Maybe it's just all schemantics, but at least I sincerely hope to have been accurate in my pedantics!

 

Richard in Michigan

All 50/1 versions are optically identical. The older 50/1.2 generally has more variance, but I have heard told that if you can get a really great copy, they are even better than the 50/1. I have never seen proof though. I would go for the best 50/1 combination of cheap and in good condition. Make sure to test it for focus shift, which some have. Put it on a tripod, focus wide open, and without touching the focus, shoot at f/1, f/2 and f/4, and see if all are sharp where focused.

Edited December 19, 2010 by WestMichigan
Typographical Error in my Pedantry!

[carstenw]

Hi CarstenW,

sincerely, I have a doubt as to whether 'Focus Shift' is a phenomena dependent upon 'Sample Variation' - ie: Encountering it is dependent upon whether an individual copy of the lens produces the effect. My personal understanding is that 'Focus Shift' upon aperture change is a Physical Property of the Optical Design of a Lens which has a Fast Aperture as a Feature. It does seem to be the case that variability in manufacture and especially variability in the focus mechanisms of both cameras and lenses do create the phenomena of some lens/camera combinations who's variabilities happen to cancel each other out and create the operational experience of 'lacking focus shift'. Further, it's possible to have camera &/or lens adjusted to create a 'lacking focus shift' effect, but doing so creates Focusing Errors for other lenses due to their Focusing Accuracy depending on not 'mis-adjusting' the focusing mechanism's mechanics.

 

Leica would never design a lens with significant focus shift inherent in the design, but there is enough variation in the placement of the elements to change the optical properties, in the rare case for the worse. Both the 35 Lux ASPH I and the 50/1 Noctilux are known to have both copies without or with little focus shift, as well as other copies which have significant focus shift. I have personally tested the presence and absence of focus shift in two copies of the 35 Lux ASPH I, but I have only tried a pretty good copy of the Noctilux, and am relying on the testing of others to show that there are also bad copies.

 

I don't believe that it is possible to adjust for focus shift without changing the lens, but by adjusting the rangefinder's eccentric wheel, it is of course possible to choose where you want correct focus to be attained. This could minimize the ill effect of focus shift in one lens (but not remove anything), but would of course affect when other lenses are in or out of focus (while not producing any focus shift in them).

[WestMichigan]

Hello Carsten,

I am unable to speak in absolutes on 'Focus Shift' and really hope that other forum members may weigh in on the matter who have a much deeper knowledge base than I possess. I have no independent experiences to offer to rebut your hand's on observations so please don't take my following statement as vitriolic or a challenge to the experiences you've had on the matter, ok? I am just not seeing, at this stage of my understanding, where your empirical observations of various lens samples showing negligible to non-negligible instances of 'Focus Shift' when tested on the cameras you had at hand does anything to demonstrate a flaw in my statement about Camera Variables and Lens Variables being a factor in whether users directly observed their Lenses' inherent shifting focus points upon aperture change as they used the lens.

Honestly speaking, I may be mis-informed and would sincerely appreciate learning whether I am or am not in the matter, but at this point I recall encountering quite a few posts on this forum and commentary in various lens review on the 'net that a) Focus Shift is an Inherent Property of 'Some' Lens Designs, The variabilies of manufacture of lenses and adjustment in RF Systems make encountering that inherent property inconsistent, and c) the RF Mechanism in the M's can be Mis-Calibrated to Match the focusing behaviours of a Specific Lens Sample, but comes (usually) at the cost of being unreliable in achieving focus with other lenses who's focusing mechanisms were reliable before the mis-calibration.

 

Sincerely,

Richard in Michigan

 

 

Leica would never design a lens with significant focus shift inherent in the design, but there is enough variation in the placement of the elements to change the optical properties, in the rare case for the worse. Both the 35 Lux ASPH I and the 50/1 Noctilux are known to have both copies without or with little focus shift, as well as other copies which have significant focus shift. I have personally tested the presence and absence of focus shift in two copies of the 35 Lux ASPH I, but I have only tried a pretty good copy of the Noctilux, and am relying on the testing of others to show that there are also bad copies.

 

I don't believe that it is possible to adjust for focus shift without changing the lens, but by adjusting the rangefinder's eccentric wheel, it is of course possible to choose where you want correct focus to be attained. This could minimize the ill effect of focus shift in one lens (but not remove anything), but would of course affect when other lenses are in or out of focus (while not producing any focus shift in them).

[Jeff S]

Almost every lens has focus shift. Read second section here for a short explanation.

 

Jeff

[wstotler]

Here's where I say:

 

Great arguments and things to think about regarding focus shift!

 

But . . . focus shift on a Noctilux?

 

Doesn't the Noctilux only have ONE working aperture?! (Read: f/1)

 

Buy an few ND filters and call it a day. Throw in a 1.25x magnifier to help with focusing.

 

Seriously agree that $3,000 is a good price if in decent condition.

 

Cheers!

Will

[Jeff S]

 

Doesn't the Noctilux only have ONE working aperture?! (Read: f/1)

 

 

Apparently so, but choices are f1.2, f1 or f.95 (post #3)...the OP's dilemma, besides cost.

 

Jeff

[menos I M6]

I'd go for a nice V3 f1 Noctilux in user condition and save a lot of money.

If you are really into it, you could get a sample, which is already coded.

 

That the sample fits spot on perfectly to your current camera/ lens line up though is the most important point of it all, as it can be a long way, getting one aligned, to fit your gear.

 

If you buy now, to possibly sell later, as you are not sure, go and get a nice mint V4 (or of course one of those f1.2 samples ;-) ).

 

Many consider the much more rare 60 f1.2 Hexanon, to be a very nice, less expensive (let's see, how long that will remain true) alternative, if a fast 50ish lens is, what you are looking for.

 

Good luck ;-)