Focus Problem?

[Guest kissov]

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I just purchased an M9 with several lenses. I set up a focus chart to check the focus. If I measure from the chart to the "focal plane" and set that measurement on the lens (new 50mm cron and a used 90mm elmarit) the result is dead sharp. If I focus through the rangefinder the image is soft and the distance on the lens barrel is incorrect with both lenses. Does the camera need adjustment? Do I send this week old M9 back to Leica? Is this an unusual problem? Should I be worried? Thank you for any advice and/or comfort. My M8 was always right on.

 

R Thorpe

[jaapv]

Quite possible. There are a number of M9 coming in that need adjustment out of the box.Contact Leica NJ or Solms for fast service..

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[Guest kissov]

What an odd forum this is, to ask a question about Leica's premier product and get one reply. I don't get it. An issue with the ability of a camera to photograph things in focus must not be important to Leica customers.

[IkarusJohn]

What an odd forum this is, to ask a question about Leica's premier product and get one reply. I don't get it. An issue with the ability of a camera to photograph things in focus must not be important to Leica customers.

 

But you got a very good reply. What else is there to say?

 

I'm amazed you manage to get an accurate focus directly off the barrel, as the scale is not very detailed, whereas the rangefinder should allow for finer measure. When you say " If I focus through the rangefinder the image is soft and the distance on the lens barrel is incorrect with both lenses.", presumably you mean the final image printed or on screen is soft, and not the imagine through the viewfinder.

 

Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question, but I have to ask.

 

Are you able to identify where the imagine is sharp when you focus through the viewfinder? in front of or behind the image you focused on?

[Guest kissov]

John,

I only check distances that correspond to markings on the lenses. And the image is sharp through the viewfinder but not sharp on the print. If the focal plane to image distance measures 5' then I rotate the lens barrel to the 5 foot inscription on the lens and take a picture of the focusing chart. This image on both lenses is dead sharp. If I repeat this process at 5' and bring the image into focus through the viewfinder the resulting "developed" image is out of focus. Even though the measured distance from the focus chart to the plane of focus is , for example, 5' the witness mark on the lens is beyond 5' feet when observed with the image sharp in the finder. I hope this a better explanation of the problem with , I believe, the camera body and not the two lenses.

 

R Thorpe

[IkarusJohn]

I'm also new to Leica RF cameras, but it seems like an adjustment issue with the camera body as you say. I'd send it off to Leica New Jersey or Solms as Jaap suggests.

[Guest kissov]

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I will call them in the morning John. I guess I'm in shock that the very essence of what this device should do, focus an image on a sensor, it cannot do out of the box. My faith in German precision and engineering is shaken. John than you for coming back to me. Cheers.

 

Richard

[earleygallery]

What an odd forum this is, to ask a question about Leica's premier product and get one reply. I don't get it. An issue with the ability of a camera to photograph things in focus must not be important to Leica customers.

 

Good grief! You get a pretty instant response and it's not good enough? Clearly if you think there's a fault you need to let someone inspect the camera in person.

 

I've no idea if the problem is the camera or user error. Only an inspection - from your dealer or Leica service can determine if it's the camera.

[ndjambrose]

Sounds like the rangefinder is out of true. This is a common problem (just search for rangefinder adjustment) but may not be entirely Leica's fault. The rangefinder is a precision piece of engineering, but delicate and susceptible to shock and vibration. The camera may have become uncalibrated during transit.

 

There is only one fix: return the camera to the dealer for replacement, or to the factory for adjustment. (And I think you got that answer 7 minutes after posting your question).

[jaapv]

What an odd forum this is, to ask a question about Leica's premier product and get one reply. I don't get it. An issue with the ability of a camera to photograph things in focus must not be important to Leica customers.

Well, the point is that is is a simple matter of a mechanical adjustment. So yes - it should not have reached you in that state, unless it happened in transit, but basically adjustment is maintenance for a rangefinder camera.

[bocaburger]

I guess I'm in shock that the very essence of what this device should do, focus an image on a sensor, it cannot do out of the box. My faith in German precision and engineering is shaken.

 

It has nothing to do with precision or engineering, which are excellent, and it most definitely can focus perfectly out of the box. The fact that yours doesn't (and mine didn't) is purely an issue of careless adjustment at the factory, and the failure of Quality Control protocols to catch and correct it before being put in the box.

 

Yes, it's a quick and simple thing to check and calibrate the rangefinder, especially for someone with experience and the special tools and instrumentation Leica has developed for the purpose. Sadly, there is only one Leica service center in the US doing warranty work, and unless you live within driving distance of Allendale it requires shipping the camera at the owners expense--and insurance for $7000 is a pretty penny. Their turnaround-times vary, but from my experience it isn't unlikely to be without the camera for several weeks, or more, and again from my experience, there's no guarantee they'll get it right the first time. Having delved under the hood of Leica rangefinders in the past for more complex tasks, the rangefinder adjustment was something I felt confident to do myself, and so in about an hour I had it to perfection.

 

A couple things I will point out, first of all when the rangefinder images coincide, the subject should be rendered tack-sharp, regardless of whether the lens marking agrees with a physical measurement of subject-to-image plane. Second of all, since focusing a rangefinder is a proxy affair, tolerances in lens adjustment can factor in also. The more lenses you own (or try) that all mis-focus in the same direction and by the same amount, the greater your confidence can be that it is only the rangefinder that needs adjustment. But if even after the rangefinder has been properly calibrated, one or more lenses still mis-focuses, they will need to be calibrated. The tolerances for lens adjustment could be a tad more relaxed with film, whereas the high-resolution flat-plane digital sensor won't allow such a wide berth.

[earleygallery]

It has nothing to do with precision or engineering, which are excellent, and it most definitely can focus perfectly out of the box. The fact that yours doesn't (and mine didn't) is purely an issue of careless adjustment at the factory, and the failure of Quality Control protocols to catch and correct it before being put in the box.

 

But what if it left the factory in perfect order and became misaligned during transit or handling?

 

If it's definately the rangefinder it will also be out if you 'focus' on something at infinity like the moon.

[pico]

But what if it left the factory in perfect order and became misaligned during transit or handling?

 

A few of us have wondered if air travel hasn't knocked some M9's off-whack. (lowly pressurized, mildly heated cargo bins.)

[Guest kissov]

Great responses, a discussion, thank you.

[bocaburger]

But what if it left the factory in perfect order and became misaligned during transit or handling?

 

If it's definately the rangefinder it will also be out if you 'focus' on something at infinity like the moon.

 

If the images don't line up at infinity, it could be as a result of handling either before the camera was boxed-up or if it was opened somewhere along the way, but otherwise, Leica's packaging is quite good in terms of absorbing shock and vibration.

 

In my case infinity was ok, it was the close-focus that was off. The adjustment for that is quite secure (the threaded slotted stud that locks it down is, or should be, torqued quite firmly such that it takes deliberate muscling to loosen it). If the internal rangefinder mechanism relation is disturbed (as, from an impact), it will throw the rangefinder off at all distances but not disturb the close-focus (arm length) but there will be no coincidence at infinity, and, consequently, re-adjusting infinity will right things at all distances. If the close-focus locking stud is found to be secure, then the adjustment hasn't moved since it left the factory. In fact, per the service manuals the only time that adjustment is ever touched after it leaves the factory is if the rangefinder mechanism has to come out of the body. If however infinity does coincide (as was the case with mine) but other distances up to and including close-focus, are off, then it's virtually a certainty it left the factory that way.

Edited December 20, 2010 by bocaburger

[jaapv]

It has nothing to do with precision or engineering, which are excellent, and it most definitely can focus perfectly out of the box. The fact that yours doesn't (and mine didn't) is purely an issue of careless adjustment at the factory, and the failure of Quality Control protocols to catch and correct it before being put in the box.

 

Yes, it's a quick and simple thing to check and calibrate the rangefinder, especially for someone with experience and the special tools and instrumentation Leica has developed for the purpose. Sadly, there is only one Leica service center in the US doing warranty work, and unless you live within driving distance of Allendale it requires shipping the camera at the owners expense--and insurance for $7000 is a pretty penny. Their turnaround-times vary, but from my experience it isn't unlikely to be without the camera for several weeks, or more, and again from my experience, there's no guarantee they'll get it right the first time. Having delved under the hood of Leica rangefinders in the past for more complex tasks, the rangefinder adjustment was something I felt confident to do myself, and so in about an hour I had it to perfection.

 

A couple things I will point out, first of all when the rangefinder images coincide, the subject should be rendered tack-sharp, regardless of whether the lens marking agrees with a physical measurement of subject-to-image plane. Second of all, since focusing a rangefinder is a proxy affair, tolerances in lens adjustment can factor in also. The more lenses you own (or try) that all mis-focus in the same direction and by the same amount, the greater your confidence can be that it is only the rangefinder that needs adjustment. But if even after the rangefinder has been properly calibrated, one or more lenses still mis-focuses, they will need to be calibrated. The tolerances for lens adjustment could be a tad more relaxed with film, whereas the high-resolution flat-plane digital sensor won't allow such a wide berth.

Quite right, but for us who would like to have it done by somebody else there is a network of highly capable Leica repairpersons worldwide who can easily do this type of work.

[bocaburger]

Quite right, but for us who would like to have it done by somebody else there is a network of highly capable Leica repairpersons worldwide who can easily do this type of work.

 

There are several here in the US, but only one, Allendale NJ, will do it free under warranty. Well...not exactly free. Estimating the M9 to be worth approximately $3500 by November 2012, my M9 purchased in November 2010 is depreciating at an average rate of $146/month. In my past experience it's usually taken New Jersey at least a month to turn around even a simple adjustment requiring no parts. Then there's the cost of shipping it to them. $57 FedEx Ground, fully insured. In my past experience, it's usually taken them more than one go to get something right, so double that. Total actual cost: $406. Total loss of enjoyment time with my camera: priceless

 

So while I consider myself among those who would like to have it done by somebody else, I also consider myself very fortunate that I don't have to have it done by somebody else

 

OTOH, just to be clear, I am most assuredly not advocating that this is a dance in the park or that anyone with opposable thumbs and access to a screwdriver should attempt it on his own!!