Trade my Mamiya 7II System for a Second M9?

[jplomley]

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I'm at a crossroads here and could use some feedback. We are all aware of the stellar performance of the Mamiya 7 system. I've had the 7II with 43/65 lens combination for several years now and use it on and off again for local projects. However, when I'm travelling, the Mamiya stays home and I take an M9 and M7 (although the last trip to Louisianna was with just a pair of M7s). I like using a pair of Ms for street work for the versatility and speed. When I work with the M7's, I have a 28 Cron Asph on one body and a 50 Cron on the other. With the M9 I use the 35 Cron Asph. I could use a second M9 to cement my 75 Cron Asph to because it is a real nuisance switching lenses, especially on a sensor that has no self-cleaning mechanism. Not to mention the reliability issue of any digital M (please, no kick-back on this statement having owned three digi Ms now I've had my fair share of QC issues). But to fund a second M9 I would need to sell the Mamiya. I did this once before to fund a pair of M8s, and then a year later repurchased the Mamiya. But the M9 is a much better beast for large prints, making it a much more formidable competitor against the Mamiya in this regard. However, the thought of sinking yet more $$$ into a digital body makes me cringe....but then what good is the Mamiya if it is sitting on the shelf!

[Stealth3kpl]

1) You don't use the Mamiya as much as you'd like.

2) You feel the performance is matched by the M9

3) You're willing to put up with potential QC issues

4) The M9 is very portable, will get a lot of use and make life easier by reducing the need to change lenses.

 

Buy the M9. Merry Christmas!

Pete

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[Peyton Hoge]

I think you answered your own question. Re: your last sentence.

[borowiec]

Jeff,

 

I've been shooting medium format since the early 1980s, using mainly Fuji 6x9 rangefinder cameras. I got my M9 in October 2009 and no longer use film for color work. I can get better prints--more detail, sharpness, resolution, etc.--from properly processed M9 files than from Fuji Pro-H negatives scanned with a Hasselblad Flextight scanner. I am judging this from 27"x40" prints.

 

I still use film for B&W only because I have yet to see an inkjet print that matches the beauty of a silver print, and I've tried virtually every paper out there. For color I use Epson Exhibition Fiber.

 

So in your shoes, I would definitely sell the Mamiya equipment and get a second M9.

 

Andrew Borowiec

[fotolebrocq]

Jeff,

 

 

I still use film for B&W only because I have yet to see an inkjet print that matches the beauty of a silver print, and I've tried virtually every paper out there. For color I use Epson Exhibition Fiber.

 

 

Andrew Borowiec

 

Andrew, I have just started using Photospeed Platinum Baryta - not sure if it matches silver but it's pretty close

 

Tony

Edited December 16, 2010 by fotolebrocq
adding name

[jaapv]

A hard choice to make, Jeff. But if you have to it might be best to go by the thickness of the dust layer on the respective cameras

[enboe]

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Just a thought.

 

Try renting a second digital M and see how you like the work flow. If it's all you think, then you can commit.

 

The M7II has many advantages, and the second-hand value makes it worth keeping in my opinion. I regret selling mine when a 24/2.8 showed up at a local store and I needed the trade equity.

 

Enjoy.

[jplomley]

Cheers for the feedback everyone. Much appreciated.

 

Enboe, I currently shoot with a pair of M7's and up until the M9, a pair of M8's, so unfortunately, for my bank account, I am all too familiar with the advantages of shooting with a pair of loaded guns :-)

[Bill W]

You answered your own question but unfortunately you will probably have sellers remorse as soon as you sell or trade the Mamiya. I still have some film somewhere I believe. The camera's that would use it are somewhere also.......dead batteries in them though....

[jplomley]

You answered your own question but unfortunately you will probably have sellers remorse as soon as you sell or trade the Mamiya

 

That is exactly what happened when I bought the M8's. The M8 just could not compete with the Mamiya for large print sizes. And a drum scanned Mamiya neg or tranny comes pretty close to 4x5 quality so I consider the Mamiya my portable large format kit. But the M9 printed at 240ppi image resolution gives roughly 16x24, a very decent sized image for gallery presentation. As a side note, recent prints I made from the S2 are certainly rivaling drum scanned 4x5 film at similar dimensions.

[adan]

I love my M9, but I've done the tests, and high-res/low-grain 120 film (Tmax 100, Ektar 100) will still edge it out in 16 x 16 or 16 x 20 prints (depending on whether one starts with 6x6 or 6x7 format). The film (or more accurately, the film plus a Zeiss Hassy 80mm or Biogon 38mm) didn't really record MORE detail, but it did record the same level of detail a bit more cleanly due to occasional little moire "events" becoming visible in the M9 images at that size/print resolution (240ppi).

 

More so with man-made patterns like bricks and grilles than with landscape textures, perhaps.

 

The difference was very small - I loaned comparison 16 x 16 prints to a local store and about 90% of the fairly sophisticated (as in: knew what a Leica and a Hasselblad were) customers to whom they showed the prints picked the M9 image as the "Hassy" image - or couldn't tell one way or the other. But it was visible to the experienced eye.

 

Realistically - if you already have the Mam7 and the M9, you ought to be able to do your own comparison and see for yourself one way or the other. In my case - I still have the M9, don't have the Hassys.

[msk2193]

I love my M9, but would never part with the M7-II.

Long exposure is virtually impossible with the M9 and the photos have a different feel.

[Jeff S]

As a side note, recent prints I made from the S2 are certainly rivaling drum scanned 4x5 film at similar dimensions.

 

Is the S2 in your arsenal, or are you just trying to torture yourself?

 

As far as your question, nobody can speak for you. We've all been there in some way or another, and yet we still contemplate options. You want the Mamiya (for now) and you want another M9. Only way to not look back is to develop another plan to fund the M9 in time (sell off something else non-photographic?). And, after you've lived with a couple of M9s, maybe you'll sell off the Mamiya eventually...again.

 

Then the M10 will arrive.

 

Jeff

[Shade]

I think you should sell the mamiya. What good is a camera if you're not using it?

[Vieri]

Hey Jeff, why not keeping the Mamiya and selling one M7? Would that be enough help financially? This way you could keep your Mamiya and have still a film M for BW when needed.

[M'Ate]

Jeff,

The M9 wins hands down for convenience which results in the Mamiya and Hasselblads being left at home. On every other aspect, the Mamiya wins hands-down; no question in my mind.

 

TBH, the M7/M6/MP wins as well if slow film is used. Not talking pixel peeping here, because digital always seems better even the D-Lux 4, but when viewing a whole image on screen, or a print, the colour, and feel of a film image is much better and blown highlights are history. Users are realizing this on a major scale now, hence the resurgence in film.

 

If I could recover the full cost of my M9, it would be gone in a New York heartbeat. I'd buy back the mint M7 I sold to fund it and a Mamiya 7, or an XPan.

 

So, my advice is to keep the Mamiya and use it more, or admit that convenience is King and be done with film, scanners and labs forever to cease the yo-yo effect and stress of continually comparing different systems.

 

edit: What I haven't yet worked out is why so many of us serious B&W users even contemplate shooting an M9 when there is absolutely no doubt that B&W film is not challenged at all by digital B&W. Why compromise our B&W shooting for the 'convenience' of a video sensor? Is it that important that the final image quality can suffer so much for ease of operation ? I'm also confused, not criticizing.

Edited December 18, 2010 by M'Ate

[brill64]

if you don't mind my asking, how do you decide, assuming that you occasionally still use your mamiya from time to time, between taking your m9 digital or your mamiya film out on any particular day? i'll often carry both, especially when traveling (i have a 670 folder). i would consider it a good idea if having a pair of m9's is what really takes you to next level work or style wise. it needs to be where you want to be. it's certainly a more compact kit than medium format film and justifying the expense, if that's your biggest concern, will eventually fall to the wayside if you know that you can really make it work for you in the way that you want. also consider what you might want to do if an m9.2 or an m10 suddenly appeared..

[xrogers]

You have to decide for yourself, of course, but I'm keeping my Mamiya. Some days cry out for film, and for photos where you have a bit of time, it is arguably the best compromise between size, convenience and photo quality ever manufactured (and perhaps that ever will be manufactured).

 

Later,

 

Clyde

[BerndReini]

I often hear that if you haven't used something for a certain time, you should sell it. Here's my counter check that always seems to get me in trouble: use your Mamyia 7II exclusively for two weeks, look at the results, and then decide if you really want to sell it. It's a good test to prevent seller's remorse.

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[jplomley]

This is terrific feedback everyone. Many thanks for taking the time to comment. Just a quick update, I decided to sell a few of my Leica items to fund the second M9, thus deciding to keep the Mamiya. I went to my local dealer today and was looking again at several of my images he has hung around the shop, and without a doubt, B&W prints from the Mamiya are simply unsurpassed. Going forward, I will use the M9s for all of my color work and the Mamiya any B&W work where I have the time and intention of printing large.

 

I will now try to answer some of the questions in this thread...

 

Is the S2 in your arsenal, or are you just trying to torture yourself?

 

I had one on loan for a three week evaluation period in the Spring. It is an incredible system without a doubt, but for the application I was interested in (landscape), I am awaiting tilt/shift lenses before fully buying in.

 

The M9 wins hands down for convenience which results in the Mamiya and Hasselblads being left at home. On every other aspect, the Mamiya wins hands-down; no question in my mind.

 

For the most part, I would have to agree with this statement.

 

if you don't mind my asking, how do you decide, assuming that you occasionally still use your mamiya from time to time, between taking your m9 digital or your mamiya film out on any particular day?

 

Usually, I have pre-scouted a shot oftentimes discovered in my wanderings with the Leica M. If I feel the image would be best served as a large, detailed print, I then return with the Mamiya loaded with either Acros 100 or Provia 100F.

 

use your Mamyia 7II exclusively for two weeks, look at the results, and then decide if you really want to sell it. It's a good test to prevent seller's remorse.

 

Excellent advice. In fact, for my return trip to Cuba in February, I will be taking the Mamiya along with the M9's. The architecture, which can best be described as beautiful decay, is best served with MF and Provia 100F. I've added an image from my past trip to Santiago de Cuba with the M9 and 21 Elmarit Asph to illustrate the architecture....

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