180mm APO-Elmarit versus APO-Telyt

[robsteve]

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Marco was asking about how the 180mm APO Elmarit compares to the older 180mm APO-Telyt on the DMR. Last summer when I wonded both lenses, I did some comparison shots. In all conditions the APO-Elmarit was better than the APO-Telyt.

 

I also did some comparisons of the two lenses with the 2x APO and the APO-Elmarit was significantly better than the APO-Telyt. I don't have the test shots found for that just yet, but I was shooting a wooden wharf about 400meters away and with the APO-Elmarit, the grain of the wood was easily distinguised with great edge contrast, while with the APO-Telyt at didn' seem as sharp.

 

Here are the two lenses without the converters, shot in my back yard on a tripod, with mirror up.

 

 

First, the 180mm f3.4 APO-Telyt at f3.4.

 

 

 

Then the 180mm f2.8 APO-Elmarit at f3.4.

 

 

 

Here is the 180mm f3.4 APO-Telyt at f5.6. This is supposed to be the optimum aperture for this lens.

 

 

 

Then the 180mm f2.8 APO-Elmarit at 5.6.

 

[robsteve]

To give an example of the great qualites of the APO-Elmarit, here are two shot up close, the girl at f4 and the boy at f5.6.

 

 

 

 

After my testing and the fine performance of the APO-Telyt at f5.6, I decided to sell the APO-Elmarit and keep the APO-Telyt for when I wanted a small travel lens. I also own the 180mm APO Summicron, so I really didn't need three 180mm APO lenses. Incidentally, my 180mm APO-Elmarit was the original version which did not take the 1.4x extender.

[sdai]

Rob, you've marked both #2 and #4 as 180/2.8 at f/3.4 ... which is correct?

[robsteve]

Here are some crops into the images. The 100% crop of this area would be about 2000pixels wide, so they are reduced by about 50% to 1000pixels wide.

 

 

First, the 180mm F3.4 APO-Telyt at f5.6.

 

 

 

Next, the 180mm APO-Elmarit at f5.6.

 

[robsteve]

Rob, you've marked both #2 and #4 as 180/2.8 at f/3.4 ... which is correct?

 

Number two was labeled correctly, I have since changed the label on number four.

[rljones]

Rob,

 

You mention using the APO-Elmarit on the DMR. However, did you shoot the APO-Telyt images on film and then scan them, or did you use this lens on the M8?

 

The color intensity is greater with the Telyt and if an M8 was used, how similar were the RAW processing?

 

Also, the text "honey" seem a little more crisp with the Telyt. Possibly the plane of focus was more recessed than the plane of focus with the Elmarit.

[macusque]

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Thank you Robert!

 

From your images it doesn't seem there's a lot of difference between the two.

Apo-Elmarit has slightly smoother out-of-focus at f/3.4 and Apo-Telyt has slightly more color intensity, particularly wide open which makes me think that it is actually a bit slower than f/3.4.

 

You said that the Apo-Elmarit works better with 2x than the Apo-Telyt and that is nice to hear.

How's the handling ? I find the Telyt focussing ring a bit too close to the camera and I'd somewhat prefer it weighs slightly more, or with better balance.

Did you find the Apo-Elmarit better to use handhold ?

 

I'm interested in the Apo-Elmarit mainly because it focusses closer and because it acceptes (latest model) the 1.4x Apo. I'd like also slightly better ergonomics.

Otherwise the Telyt alone for distant subjects is simply great and I agree, if I had the mytical 180 Apo-Summicron I'd keep the Apo-Telyt as a small travel tele without hesitation.

[strick]

The color intensity is greater with the Telyt ...

 

Also, the text "honey" seem a little more crisp with the Telyt. Possibly the plane of focus was more recessed than the plane of focus with the Elmarit.

 

 

However, in my opinion the Apo-Telyt wins here clearly.

 

Cheers,

Greg

[macusque]

I tend to agree... in the images here the Apo-Telyt has more depth, more Leica-look so to speak.

I also looked at some images Robert took with his 180 Apo-Summicron and they are much more thrilling than these.

The wider aperture plays a role, but IMO the Apo-Elmarit seems much more "flat" than the Summicron (and maybe also than the Telyt) at similar apertures.

 

My dealer will lend me an Apo-Elmarit to test, so I'll make a direct comparison with my Telyt.

[robsteve]

Rob,

 

You mention using the APO-Elmarit on the DMR. However, did you shoot the APO-Telyt images on film and then scan them, or did you use this lens on the M8?

 

The color intensity is greater with the Telyt and if an M8 was used, how similar were the RAW processing?

 

Also, the text "honey" seem a little more crisp with the Telyt. Possibly the plane of focus was more recessed than the plane of focus with the Elmarit.

 

I was focused on the bow of the boat. Even if the focus is not perfect you can follow the blades of grass to find the sharpest and the APO-Elmarit seems sharper. All the images were shot at the same time using the DMR.

 

I noticed the f5.6 APO-Telyt seemed a bit darker or richer. I made sure in processing (LightRoom) that nothing was changed but the color balance. I must have shot on auto white balance. The color balance was off between all of them, so they were all set to the balance of the f5.6 shot of the APO-Telyt. In other words, the APO-Telyt was some thing like 5300K 31tint, and I set this value manually on the three other pictures. I chose this shot as it seemed closer to the colour of the boat. Setting all pictures to the same white balance also lets you see the color redition of the lenses.

 

In regards to the life ring, I noticed it was sharper on the APO-Telyt shot too. The focus may be slightly behind the bow of the boat in the APO-Telyt shot. By following the blades of grass, it looks like the APO-Telyt has more depth of field than the APO-Elmarit. This might be the abrubt transistion of sharpness to unsharpness of the new lenses that Erwin Puts talks about.

 

Another thing I have notice on testing some of the lenses is the faster lenses are always easier to get critical focus on. Even though the difference is just half a stop, the APO-Elmarit pops into focus easier than the APO-Telyt.

[glenerrolrd]

I was focused on the bow of the boat. Even if the focus is not perfect you can follow the blades of grass to find the sharpest and the APO-Elmarit seems sharper. All the images were shot at the same time using the DMR.

 

I noticed the f5.6 APO-Telyt seemed a bit darker or richer. I made sure in processing (LightRoom) that nothing was changed but the color balance. I must have shot on auto white balance. The color balance was off between all of them, so they were all set to the balance of the f5.6 shot of the APO-Telyt. In other words, the APO-Telyt was some thing like 5300K 31tint, and I set this value manually on the three other pictures. I chose this shot as it seemed closer to the colour of the boat. Setting all pictures to the same white balance also lets you see the color redition of the lenses.

 

In regards to the life ring, I noticed it was sharper on the APO-Telyt shot too. The focus may be slightly behind the bow of the boat in the APO-Telyt shot. By following the blades of grass, it looks like the APO-Telyt has more depth of field than the APO-Elmarit. This might be the abrubt transistion of sharpness to unsharpness of the new lenses that Erwin Puts talks about.

 

Another thing I have notice on testing some of the lenses is the faster lenses are always easier to get critical focus on. Even though the difference is just half a stop, the APO-Elmarit pops into focus easier than the APO-Telyt.

I currently have 3 R 180 lenses as well the apo summicron, the apo-telyt and the pre apo 67mm version of the elmarit. The apo summicron is a real keeper but its just too heavy for walking around much and much more difficult to handle. The apo telyt is surprising in its exceptional image quality. Particularly at infinity . Its portable and light . The reason for the elmarit used to be the quick and accurate focusing. I had been considering the 180 apo elmarit because (1) its the newer lens and should have improved image quality (2) its got to be faster and more accurate to focus ..(3) its designed to worked with the 1.4 extender....extending its range . Seeing these tests was really helpful.. I think I will keep the telyt .

[rljones]

glen,

 

the apo elmarit comes in 2 versions. the older one will not take a 1.4x converter unless first modified by Leica (the newer one, will take the 1.4x) since the 1.4x will hit the rear element.

[robsteve]

Roger:

 

The other reason I decided to keep the APO-Telyt is they really aren't worth that much any more and I didn't see the point of selling it for $500-700. Mine is the older version that takes the series 7.5 filters, so it is worth a bit less than the E60 filter versions.

[glenerrolrd]

Roger:

 

The other reason I decided to keep the APO-Telyt is they really aren't worth that much any more and I didn't see the point of selling it for $500-700. Mine is the older version that takes the series 7.5 filters, so it is worth a bit less than the E60 filter versions.

I agree... I used the older version from when it was introduced. Bought the elmarit 2.8 for its faster focusing since my daughters were a primary subject. Then I traded out the 7.5 version for a E60 version. It was still in the plastic bag ,box papers.. I think it was mounted one or twice. I tried it on the DMR last week for the first time and was quite impressed with it as a travel lens. I just wish it was better with the tele converters and focused quicker.

[max0442]

Is there any way a Leica APO R 1.4X entender can be modified for use on a 180 APO-Telyt-M & a M8?

[macusque]

I just wish it was better with the tele converters and focused quicker.

Did you try it with the 2x Apo ?

I was told it works fine with it, albeit you need to stop down to effective f/8-f/11 for good results.

For casual 360mm (500mm on the DMR) it would be nice though.

[glenerrolrd]

Did you try it with the 2x Apo ?

I was told it works fine with it, albeit you need to stop down to effective f/8-f/11 for good results.

For casual 360mm (500mm on the DMR) it would be nice though.

Yes but the image quality suffered enough to be noticeable. I didn t do a controlled test like Rob s but it was pretty easy to see. Also that combination is very difficult to focus ..which is why I typically use the APO 1.4 extender. I can compare it to the 280 2.8 APO and the 1.4 APO extender that was designed for it . That combination yields images that are hard to differentiate from the lens alone.

[macusque]

Thank you Roger,

 

as it's always been the case with converters, 1.4x is much better than 2x.

 

Even the great Canon 300/2.8L IS which is said to perform really well with the 2x, actually looses quite a bit of sharpness and microcontrast with the converter (even the 2xII) while with the 1.4xII it's only marginally worse, at least from my experience.

I can't believe someone states that he gets very good results with the 300+1.4x+2x...

 

The only exception would be the Apo-Summicron.. strangely Erwin Puts says that the 180/2 delivers excellent resuts with the 2x wide open, while with the 1.4x the lens needs to be stopped down 1 -2 stops...

[robsteve]

Is there any way a Leica APO R 1.4X entender can be modified for use on a 180 APO-Telyt-M & a M8?

 

The 1.4 APO has a long nose that has to fit into a recess between the lens mount and the rear element of the mating lenses. On the 180mm APO-Tely, the rear element is in the way to mount the 1.4x APO. If you want to use the 180mm on a M8, the 180mm APO-Tely is probably the best option at it has a definite infinity stop. The other 180mm APOs will focus past inifinity, so you will never know where infinity is when shooting on the M8.

 

There is a R to M adapter to allow the mounting of R lenses to the M8.

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Hallo,

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