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Should Leica introduce a M8.3?


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I'll wager I have been reading longer than many...

 

I am trumpeting nothing - l leave hyperbole to those in the Colonies - I merely observe reality, and have a realistic view of the value of deep-buttoned chintz punditry.

 

I'm certain you have been reading for a long time. I certainly don't mean to imply that you haven't been.

But if it's not trumpeting, I'm not really sure what to call it. You are, after all a self-proclaimed "Leica Ambassador." So I really wouldn't expect you to share any critical views of the company.

Of course I get it. Leica is one of those entities - like Apple - that generates intense loyalty (often well deserved) from users. But those companies aren't perfect, whether we want to admit it or not.

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There is growing evidence that the Leica is finding its way out of the mess it created for itself' date=' but let's not confuse luck for skill.[/quote']

 

Speak for yourself. Luck comes to he who is positioned to gain. You could not see the M9 coming. Leica was ready with the M9. Your lack of foresight is not Leica's.

 

Why do you resent success?

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Let us look to the Just In Time element, Sir. Leica introduced the M9, which was probably on the back-burner all the time, so that it was a huge hit. Do you resent that? If you do, then why?

 

Bottom line - Leica is Leica and no number of wannabe corporate Leica owners is going to change that. Continue with your fantasies. They are fun to read.

 

Why would I resent that? I hope the M9 turns the company into an entity whose survival is assured rather than hoped for.

 

To be clear, I have been a fan of this company for more than two decades. My Leica gear is among my most cherished possessions. My wife will tell you that we had an elaborate unveiling ceremony when my M8 (one of the first to arrive in the States) showed up on my doorstep.

 

The thing is, you can be critical of something without hating it or resenting it. I want Leica to be what it once was. I want Leicas back in the hands of photojournalists. I want Leicas to be the go-to tool for available light shooters.

 

If expressing my opinion makes me a "wannabe corporate Leica owner," then I guess that's what I am.

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I think the best test to see whether Leica wants your opinion on how to run their company is if they actually ask for it.

 

Only if they are run by brain-dead monkeys. In today's world of social networking and social media, smart companies have employees and services paid to monitor Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, blogs, message forums, etc. to keep a finger on the pulse of customers.

 

I think some of you guys don't realize how valuable your opinions really are on this stuff. Never before in our history have companies been able to learn so much (without having to pay for expensive focus groups, etc.) about what their customers think.

And if enough customers are thinking something, companies tend to look for ways to do address it.

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[...]I want Leica to be what it once was. I want Leicas back in the hands of photojournalists. I want Leicas to be the go-to tool for available light shooters.

 

Good luck with re-engineering the social discourse of photojournalism. While the Leica is such an instrument, Leica's client base is nothing of the sort. There is no significant market for the Leica M in photojournalism. The big-assed DSLRs rule there, for better, and for worse. That's the way it goes. And has gone for decades.

 

You have a Leica M. You are largely out-of-the picture as 'photojournalism' goes, regardless of the little successes.

 

Fear not. Despair not. Do pictures.

 

.

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Speak for yourself. Luck comes to he who is positioned to gain. You could not see the M9 coming. Leica was ready with the M9. Your lack of foresight is not Leica's.

 

Why do you resent success?

 

Ya know, actually I think we all saw the M9 coming. It was sort of a logical next step after the M8. I also see an M10 coming. But that really doesn't mean anything.

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Good luck with re-engineering the social discourse of photojournalism. While the Leica is such an instrument, Leica's client base is nothing of the sort. There is no significant market for the Leica M in photojournalism. The big-assed DSLRs rule there, for better, and for worse. That's the way it goes. And has gone for decades.

 

You have a Leica M. You are largely out-of-the picture as 'photojournalism' goes, regardless of the little successes.

 

Fear not. Despair not. Do pictures.

 

.

 

It's gone that way for the last 15 years or so. And you may be right. It may be too late to get back into that world. I'd still love to see it happen.

Several of the photographers I've worked with my during two-decade career as a journalist have used - or have expressed a desire to use Leicas. I've had several at my current paper ask about mine.

As you might imagine though, in these days it's tough for newspapers to make those kinds of purchases when its easier to go with do-it-all dslrs.

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Which of these posts are from actual Leica owners and which are from paid employees of Leica's competitors?

 

For certain, I have been a Leica user since 1965. And I made a living using them as a news photographer - nothing special, but a living.

 

How would you imagine finding subversion here? In my opinion, you are dreaming of a conspiracy which has no veracity, regardless. So the question back to you, Sir, is how would you find such conspirators? I'd guess it's in your imagination.

 

.

Edited by pico
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Which of these posts are from actual Leica owners and which are from paid employees of Leica's competitors?

 

That does sound a bit paranoid. Especially when you consider that Leica really doesn't have any competitors in the digital rangefinder world at the moment.

 

As for me, I bought my first M3 back in 1988, while doing a photo internship at a daily paper in the Tulsa, Oklahoma. I have used them ever since.

I have been shooting an M8 quite heavily (I've owned 3) since they hit the market.

 

Flickr: tbarker13's Photostream

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Ya know, actually I think we all saw the M9 coming.

No, we did not. Most of us anyway, and certainly not me. Yes, we thought that at some point there would be an M with a 36 x 24 mm sensor, but few of us were expecting it to be introduced so soon.

 

It was sort of a logical next step after the M8. I also see an M10 coming. But that really doesn't mean anything.

Indeed it doesn’t. There were those clamouring for a FF digital M from the moment the M8 was announced, but that’s because they had not the faintest idea about the issues involved. It’s easy enough to say that after having gone to the Moon, Mars would be the next logical step. Actually doing it is slightly more complex. There will always be those armchair experts eager to talk about their supposedly brilliant but actually hare-brained ideas, but those are a nuisance one learns to ignore.

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.....I am trumpeting nothing - l leave hyperbole to those in the Colonies..............

 

Bill I am one of the 'colonial' posters in this thread but I don't see any hyperbole from us here. ;) Certainly we disagree with Frank's views as do some others posting to the thread.

 

Everyone is entitled to contribute their own opinion of course and these often revisited discussions never seem to be productive. The language and tone becomes progressively less reasoned and reasonable in my view. Better to not respond and I need to remember that myself.

 

For those unaware, the 'Leica Ambassadors' are not self proclaimed but a group of the Forum members invited by the Forum owner (as he has said previously). Unsurprisingly they are people who are enthusiastic and supportive of Leica Camera. That is after all the basis of the whole Forum. This is not a company sponsored or controlled Forum. I am of course one of those people. The group is not paid nor privileged in any way and actually has been almost entirely inactive as a group since Andreas first proposed the idea.

 

People who are part of that group of customers tend to be active Forum contributors of course and any information provided by Leica Camera (as to any other customers) is shared with the whole Forum.

Edited by hoppyman
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but I do know that social media is used to damage reputations. So does Leica.

 

What a jaded view of the world. (Can you really speak for Leica in this regard?)

Whether we like it or not, social media is a part of our lives. Companies ignore it at their own peril.

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For those unaware, the 'Leica Ambassadors' are not self proclaimed but a group of the Forum members invited by the Forum owner (as he has said previously). Unsurprisingly they are people who are enthusiastic and supportive of Leica Camera.

 

Well, as one of those who are unaware, I do apologize for assuming it was self proclaimed. I didn't know this was some sort of official designation related to the forum.

Doesn't really change what I believe regarding the related post, but that part was clearly a mistake on my part.

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What a jaded view of the world. (Can you really speak for Leica in this regard?)

Whether we like it or not, social media is a part of our lives. Companies ignore it at their own peril.

 

I don't call it jaded. It's just a fact.

 

While I don't pretend to speak for Leica, I have heard it directly from Leica that they do not trust internet chatter.

 

Companies that rely on comments that can't be substantiated also do so at their own peril.

 

We could all vote that Leica change the next M to auto-focus, but it wouldn't matter in the slightest. This is not an AGM, we are not shareholders and Leica's management will operate according to their criteria, not ours.

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I'm not really qualified to post here. There's too much I've forgotten about Leica since my film days, and too much I still have to learn about the digital M's.

 

My impression of things is that there is no need for a M8.3. Why change anything? The biggest changes to the M8.2 that people would like are probably software/firmware. Leica would make people just as happy with a firmware update (and it would be fine if it was sold, rather than given away).

 

 

A new, inexpensive, starter-version of a Leica? I'm not sure it would sell, but I'm not a typical user, so I don't have much to say.

 

 

I think a M10 is likely to come out in a year or so, probably with the same electronic frame lines as used in the current Titanium version, maybe with a few other features as well. I suspect that once the M10 is out, the M9 prices will start to drop, eventually being lower than those for the M8 cameras. The M8 is in some ways a "classic". The M9 will just be a step along the road to whatever is newest at the time.

 

 

As to what Leica should do, I think they should consider the "cost per pound" concept. For a relative fortune, they can design something new and complicated, which may or may not be financially helpful to them. Or, they can sell their firmware improvements for a reasonable price, with minimal investment in time and money. This would help the Leica image, improve existing cameras, and keep everyone happy while they continue working towards the M10.

 

As to software, I'd like to see Leica develop and sell a replacement "jpg engine" for their cameras, which do a better job of not losing so much quality. Nikon jpg images look just as good as images from raw. Not so for Leica. Maybe "development" time would go up, but this could be a user selectable option. Just an idea...

 

I'd like to see them consider the development of new accessories for the Leica, which perhaps they could sell in great numbers. Just for one example, I'd like to see an electronic flash that is far more compact than the existing ones, but which uses TTL technology.

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I don't call it jaded. It's just a fact.

 

While I don't pretend to speak for Leica, I have heard it directly from Leica that they do not trust internet chatter.

 

Companies that rely on comments that can't be substantiated also do so at their own peril.

 

We could all vote that Leica change the next M to auto-focus, but it wouldn't matter in the slightest. This is not an AGM, we are not shareholders and Leica's management will operate according to their criteria, not ours.

 

I guess you and I are really just not going to agree on this stuff.

I just spent a year writing about social media for my newspaper here in the U.S. And I can only say that your view is not one that's held by many large companies. Whether they love it or hate it, they are all scrambling to find ways to take advantage of social media and its enormous research potential.

Clearly you don't see value in that. I hope for Leica's sake that it does.

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