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working Ur-Leica?


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Really good focus here shows what the Leitz 4.5?Milar can do. This is about F12 at about 1/30 on Rollei 25

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Yes I really studied the ground glass image and determined infinity was actually 1/4” further than the mark. So Ive adjusted my FOFER accurately tonight and I’m going to figure out exact focal points to get them both on the same page. Yes that neg of the shooter is pin sharp it’s degraded here meeting Kb and the rephotographing of the negative. Heading out tomorrow for more UR shooting will try to capture sharp infinity. One thing bothers me I’m a fan of the sunshade...this Milar is Right at the front. I’m thinking it’s a good idea to shoot sun in back or from a shaded position. But I’m not expecting an M6 or M10 image here, just the best this 1914 design and optic can make.

Edited by Ambro51
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So I’m thinking about viewfinders. For the UR, This was uncharted territory for Barnack. Did he “really” use and carry the folding finder? It is so long with the lens compressed, makes the easily pocketable camera tough to carry unless you pull it off each time. ••••• I’m going to introduce a radical thought....the accessory shoe IS a viewfinder! Sleek and perfectly proportioned. Here’s how, when you hold the camera to the eye, it’s easy to get it perfectly level looking across the flat bottom of the shoe. The sides Are the width of the picture field. You cover the central point of the picture with the front shoe stop piece...you’re “framed”. Try it

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Ray - interesting observation about the angle of view of an accessory shoe.  It is about equal to a 50mm lens with your eye up close to the camera.  Tried looking on the web to find out which camera had the first accessory shoe and couldn't find anything.  Certainly the cameras I have that were made prior to 1914 don't have them. 

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Now to making this baby take pictures! I plan to do it in three phases: 1) make it transport film, 2) put in the Mikro Summar 42 lens and 3) replace dummy shutter curtain with one that works (saving this until last so I can test lens focus with ground glass without shutter curtain in the way).

 

Questions on phase 1 (for Ray or others):

 

A Leica take up spool will fit into take up area diameter-wise, but not depth-wise. The problem is there is a large headed screw at the bottom when looking down into camera that looks like I have to remove it. Correct? See pics below. This screw holds the ratchet that prevents winding in the wrong direction, but since there is an arrow on the top dial, I may not need the ratchet.  Seems the film gate is narrow enough that the film tension through the gate will prevent film from winding itself backwards accidently.

XE213302

XE213303

 
I have an extra take up spool on order for the supply side.  Ray's previous instructions said trim it down to 25mm diameter, but a regular spool is already less than that, so will trim until it fits.  Or I could just put loose film in supply side too unless that causes problems.
 
I have on order some square phonograph drive belts as Ray recommended.  Hopefully will be the right size, they were the smallest diameter I could find around 1" diameter per Ray's recommendation.  I assume I connect this to the bottom of the sprocket (when looking down into the open camera) and the bottom of where the take up spool attaches? Do I have to make it a figure 8 to match the way a normal Leica winds? Or will it work better with less tension if I don't figure 8 it? Will the latter not put enough tension of the film against the sprocket to move film forward smoothly?
 
For step 2, I assume the dummy lens comes out by removing the three small screws around the rim of the lens? Take them all the way out or just partially? Need to do anything with the screw on the aperture adjustment? Do I use the aperture in the dummy versus aperture that comes with the lens?
 

XE213306

 

Will need significant help on phase 3, the shutter curtain.  The dummy curtain spool is set back too far forward of the film gate, on left side of pic below, so just putting a new curtain on the existing spools will leak light like crazy.

 

XE213302

 

Thanks in advance for any advice and help!

 

Tom

Edited by hoglundtw
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Congratulations! Now the Fun Begins! Sounds like you understand what is done. Now, details. You need nice small screwdrivers. You need patience. You need to not lose any screws. Film

Transport; The supply spool needs to be turned down to clear case and crate. Take up is a very close fit I took some off. The spool does clear the rachet screw, the phono belt 1” by 3/32” square is right, it Does need to be figure 8 looped (see photo). Hemostats and a small poking thing help here it’s a tight fit getting them inn position. This makes both counterrotate. I load Film so, taped ends to spools bottom up wrap counterclockwise emulsion out takeup and counterclockwise supply emulsion in. I do use both spools, but you can put in loose Film. Put a fold on the end you can hear it when it goes through. •••. The shutter curtain . I removed it. I made a new one from three pieces of typewriter ribbon! The shutter segment is .003 shim brass. With edges folded for strength. I didn’t make full frame...it May, but I’m done wrestling with it and Yes the shutter is off the film plane, but less so when the opening is squared ( see photo). ••• The Summar lens should center so the existing aperature ring will be in the lens window. Thankfully with the back off it’s easy to set focal distance.

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.....and the Payoff is Pictures!

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Edited by Ambro51
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I’ll tell you one thing, this is the Most Addictive Camera I’ve ever had, and about 800 cameras have passed through my hands... especially with the “Homage” treatment.....Just a Gem of a Camera! Also it’s amazing to hold and use a near exact replica of the most Valuable camera in the World.

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Here’s a sketch of the shutter curtain. I used an old (but not used) black cloth typewriter ribbon which had dried up ink. Three strips are cut about 5” long. I taped them by the ends to glass to get them flat and taut. Make as wide as the old curtain, using flexible fabric glue glue the middle strip overlapping about 1/8” onto the top and bottom strips. The fabric glue takes awhile so I set a cover piece on and weighted it so it dried flat. Later, using “liquid electrical tape” (NAPA) paint on a few thin layers and let fully dry. The shutter plate itself is .003 brass sheet. Cut a piece about 9/16” wide and 1/4” taller than the shutter cloth. Cut a slit through the shim brass piece 23mm long, and then like a capital “I” two cuts top and bottom of the slit about 4mm wide. Now glue the brass plate in the center of the cloth with 5 minute epoxy and weight down to glue flat. After epoxy has cured cut through the slits in the brass go through the cloth. The folding is tricky. Best to ‘score’ the fold path first and fold Carefully! When folded hammer down very flat. That’s the shutter curtain. You can attach the curtain to the bare spindles temporarily with masking tape to get the best position and length, then attach using superglue. You want only as Much curtain as you need, •••• with the back off you see the clear track the film runs in. Once you get your shutter travel figured out, what your camera will give you, you can limit frame size to slightly under this width using small squares of sheet steel or brass that fit exactly into this not too deep opening. I used part of an old tintype plate!. This can glue in, I used contact cement. ••••. There is a pin protruding near the gear on the wind shaft. It gave me a lot of trouble...so I pulled it out. It controlled wind and timing maybe all I know when I removed it...the thing worked.

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Edited by Ambro51
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...as to the wind rachet, I removed the spring wire and it’s not connected now. I see no difference in operation, I just wind on till it wants to tighten, then uncap and shoot. But I did change the tension supply side spindle to One from a IIIC so my tension may vary from yours.

Edited by Ambro51
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Thanks for info on the shutter. I got the 42mm Summar in and adjusted for infinity focus. Still waiting for phono drive belt to arrive, but film transport will be harder than I thought. When I was quizzing you about removing the screw so I could get the take up spool to seat lower to engage the film in the sprockets, I was incorrectly assuming the sprocket was at the correct height. When I put some film in, I realized the sprocket is at least 1/4 inch too far towards the top of the camera. I'm trying to take that sprocket assembly out to fix it, but having a problem taking off the shutter button/winding knob that holds it to the top. Any insights?

 

I read someplace that these replicas were built by apprentices, so maybe there are some variations between individual cameras and why my sprocket is not functional.

 

Tom

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OK, figured out how to remove the shutter release button (hold the shutter release button from turning and then turn counter clockwise the gear on bottom of shaft). Then was able to get the winder knob off.  So here's the shaft with the sprocket on it and I need a way to move the sprocket about 6mm towards the slotted end of the shaft. Pic of whole assembly and pic of the geared end.

Sprocket

Sprocket End

 

The hole on the shaft was covered with something sticky (epoxy?) and I removed with a small screwdriver, but no screw underneath (what looks like a slot is scratch from screwdriver). Tried holding sprocket with a smooth-jawed water pump pliers and giving a tap with a hammer, but didn't move the sprocket along the shaft.  Next I'll try knocking out the pin on the geared end and see if that helps me unless anyone has a better idea. 

 

Tom

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That part is different from mine, in that there should be a pulley, near the top of the camera end, for the drive belt to ride in. Yes...there Are differences and this may be one. Remember all this if garage hot rodding of a Camera. We’ll figure it out. Look at the photo I posted earlier and you’ll see the pulley beneath the upper sprocket.

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Here’s the piece

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  • 1 month later...

So it's been slow going, partly due to breaking my elbow back in June, but now back to 95% (I can play Blackbird on the guitar again) and back at my Ur Leica.

 

After discovering that the drive shaft on my Ur Leica was made incorrectly, I had to improvise to extend the sprockets up to where they should be to engage the holes in the film.  I did this by buying a cheap FED 1 (Leica I copy) and stealing the part from that which had the sprockets.

 

IMG 0474

I cut off the end of this with a Dremel cutting disk, used the Dremel sanding attachment to reduce the diameter of the nipple on it and drilled out a bigger hole on the other side so the nipple of the UR Leica shaft could fit in.  Then had to drill a small hole that aligned with the locking pin from the Ur Leica piece that attaches to the winding knob. Overall it fit a bit loose, so put some Crazy Glue on it to help hold it together. Maybe I should have used hide glue to make it period appropriate?  :)

 

IMG 0509

IMG 0510

Ambro51 said he used a small phonograph drive belt to connect the film take-up spindle to the sprocket shaft.  I ordered the smallest phonograph belt I could find on eBay which was approximately the size Ambro51 said he used, but it didn't really work. Not tight enough or strong enough. I then dipped into a box of O-rings I had and found that a 3/4" by 15/16" O ring worked just fine. As Ambro51 said, you have to loop it in a figure 8 between the film take-up spindle and the drive shaft to account for the funky way that Leica take up spools always wind on the film with the emulsion side in. Doing this with both the take-up spindle and drive shaft out of the camera was not too bad. 

 

IMG 0512

So now I have a lens that focuses to infinity and a way to draw the film through the camera, all that's left is to create a real shutter for this.  Thanks again Ambro51 for your revised shutter design in previous posts.  May have some questions as I build the shutter. Especially whether you had such a big gap as I do between the shutter rollers and the film plane - I'm worried I'll have big time light leaks. See pic below. Your thoughts?

 

XE213302

 

Tom

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