working Ur-Leica?

[George Furst]

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I will share with you pictures of the UR Leica Replica camera after using it for six months. Please note that the brass is starting to show and the front of the lens is showing the affect of opening and closing the front during winding the film. I originally used a case for the Leica 1a hocky stick model but found that the camera flap interfered with the lens on a few pictures. Now I am using a case made by Mr. Zhou that I found on eBay. it really works very well and has raised areas that make it perfect for the UR Leica. Also you will note an early 35mm viewfinder that works well  and looks appropriate with the camera. The strap is one I purchased a few years ago and works perfectly with the attachment points of the side of the UR Leica.

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Edited May 22, 2017 by George Furst

[Graslund]

I will share with you pictures of the UR Leica Replica camera after using it for six months. Please note that the brass is starting to show and the front of the lens is showing the affect of opening and closing the front during winding the film. I originally used a case for the Leica 1a hocky stick model but found that the camera flap interfered with the lens on a few pictures. Now I am using a case made by Mr. Zhou that I found on eBay. it really works very well and has raised areas that make it perfect for the UR Leica. Also you will note an early 35mm viewfinder that works well  and looks appropriate with the camera. The strap is one I purchased a few years ago and works perfectly with the attachment points of the side of the UR Leica.

I´m new to this forum so this is my first post.

I Have to lift my hat to this treads topic and to your very interesting posts. Been looking to buy the working version of the 0-series by Leica and even the non working UR-serie which yours is based on. I love the hand craft and size of the UR Leica and it´s great to so one that´s dedicated to make it to a real working camera (which Leica should have done in the first place). Have you tried to shoot color with it? 

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[Gobert]

For me it’s the first time as well that I noticed this topic. I have to say it’s both interesting and enjoyable to read. I’m quite curious to recent developments on project no 2.

[George Furst]

I´m new to this forum so this is my first post.

I Have to lift my hat to this treads topic and to your very interesting posts. Been looking to buy the working version of the 0-series by Leica and even the non working UR-serie which yours is based on. I love the hand craft and size of the UR Leica and it´s great to so one that´s dedicated to make it to a real working camera (which Leica should have done in the first place). Have you tried to shoot color with it?

 

For me it’s the first time as well that I noticed this topic. I have to say it’s both interesting and enjoyable to read. I’m quite curious to recent developments on project no 2.

I guess it is time for an update on the construction of UR Leica Replica No.2. It is being made in Seoul at this time. Of course I am risking that no one will wish to purchase this camera. I have well documented my experience with the first Replica UR that I started using almost one year ago. I know exactly what Mr. Barnack and Ernst Leitz II experienced during the period of 1914-1920. Operating the camera is really a joy. I have used it for street photography, while hiking in the mountains, and it has become second nature to slide the cover over the lens when I wind the film. Also it is small and easily fits into my pocket. At the same time I must always be careful to check that the lens is extended fully from the body. I have also found that if I use 400 ASA film, I do not need to use an exposure meter but just open up the iris diaphragm and set the wheel on top to the slower shutter speed and the pictures come out fine. In the bright light I just do the opposite. The pictures are very sharp as the lens is the same design ass to planar lens we are all familiar with from Zeiss. I also have no problem to know when the film is used up, I just shake the body. When it riddles, all the film is exposed as the feeding spool is empty and loose in its space. I then go home and in the evening unload the camera in the dark and load the film into the developing tank. I usually develop the film after two roles are in the tank. At the same time I load new film into the UR-Camera so it is ready for the next photo trip or hike in the mountains. I have described this film loading procedure before on the forum. Right now I have my first color film loaded and have taken half the roll.

 

I am also having the second Camera made. It took a while to find the original lens at a decent price, and find a IIIa Camera cheap, and find on eBay another UR Leica Dummy at a reasonable price. My camera craftsman is now putting it all together and I expect to have it next month. Then I will put it on the forum buy and sell to see if there is any interest. Of course I will not post it until I have tested it and found that it is as good as my first copy. I am risking that someone is interested in such an unconventional but historic Camera.

 

I was very pleased with the discussion found in the Ulf Richter Book Oskar Barnack-From the Idea to the Leica. It was recently reissues issued in 2017 by LHSA in an English translation by Rolf Fricke. It is the best discussion I have found on the original UR lens. At the same time there was little about the internals of the Camera. For instance the way in which the Camera tells you how many pictures are left on the camera. My example does not tell you this number. Also there is little about the film winding mechanism except to say that it is done by a wire cable. We did not use a wire cable, we used the gears from a III or standard Leica Camera in our sample. We felt that this was a better solution to this mechanism.

 

I was a little discouraged that so few people responded to my Forum discussion of the Camera. I thought there would be more Forum questions but that may only mean that I have answered all the questions. As soon as I have color pictures developed, I will post them here. I plan to go to the 50 year gathering of the LHSA at Wetzlar next fall so I look forward to sharing this camera with others at that time.

Edited January 14, 2018 by George Furst

[ironringer]

I (and many other Forum viewers, I am sure) consider this to be an innovative, inspired, and special project. Most interesting for our hobby.

 

I have followed your posts and am impressed with the technical details you provide, that likely answer everyone's questions - that may be why there are few replies (your posts are thorough, showing an engineering perspective). This is a valuable contribution to our hobby, and we owe congratulations to you and the talented Mr. Kim for completing it.

 

It must give you great satisfaction to take pictures with your working UR replica (the process of using a piece of Leica and photographic history), as well as to see the excellent results.

 

I look forward to seeing and reading about the recreation of your working UR replica #2.I am sure there will be several customers for it .

 

The old Leitz lens intrigues me, especially considering its fine results in your camera. In the 1900-1920 era, were lens elements hand-ground, or were there machines that ground many at a time? Pictures (and movies?) of the old lens making procedures would be interesting as part of this thread. I wonder what materials the Leica factory has, that show these very old techniques?

[George Furst]

I (and many other Forum viewers, I am sure) consider this to be an innovative, inspired, and special project. Most interesting for our hobby.

 

I have followed your posts and am impressed with the technical details you provide, that likely answer everyone's questions - that may be why there are few replies (your posts are thorough, showing an engineering perspective). This is a valuable contribution to our hobby, and we owe congratulations to you and the talented Mr. Kim for completing it.

 

It must give you great satisfaction to take pictures with your working UR replica (the process of using a piece of Leica and photographic history), as well as to see the excellent results.

 

I look forward to seeing and reading about the recreation of your working UR replica #2.I am sure there will be several customers for it .

 

The old Leitz lens intrigues me, especially considering its fine results in your camera. In the 1900-1920 era, were lens elements hand-ground, or were there machines that ground many at a time? Pictures (and movies?) of the old lens making procedures would be interesting as part of this thread. I wonder what materials the Leica factory has, that show these very old techniques?

I thank you for the compliment. I will think of your words when in the process of making the second UR camera. we are challenged and frustrated as everything to make it work requires specially handcrafted parts made to exacting tolerances. I also appreciate your asking the question about the lens manufacturing process.  There may be pictures of the lens grinding process at Leitz but i have never seen them. Also industries are not want to share how they do special manufacturing processes. I  know as at one time I worked as a senior research engineer for a manufacturing company.

 

You must also understand that by the time Oscar Barnack designed the UR Leica, the Leitz company had been making camera and microscope lenses for over one half a century. The most challenging lenses to manufacture are not the camera lenses, it is the microscope lenses. These are exceedingly small lenses with small radii of curvature, that must be precisely ground and installed into the tiny objective part of the microscope. I am sure that the grinding of the lens was done on automatic machines watched very carefully by production mechanics. It is a process that starts with designing the lens on paper, choosing the correct refractive indices of the glass for each lens element, grinding on rotating plates on which finer and finer grits are placed until you have the finished grinding of the shape and polish on the lens surface. As a geochemist I have gone through a similar process when I made thin sections of rock samples. The perfect rock sample thickness is that immediately before all the sample disappears into the grit and you only have the glass slide upon which the rock sample was glued. Of course this is a much different process than that used to make a lens but it is an example of how important timing is in the grinding process. A few seconds is the difference between a perfect lens and a throw away one.

Edited January 17, 2018 by George Furst

[Ambro51]

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A most fascinating thread! I have just purchased an UR and also a Null Series. Both are currently aboard jets approaching from different sides of the World. I eagerly await using the Null, and the prospect of an operational UR is VERY enticing! I must say your images are stunning! Who would believe “that” camera produced them, but of course it IS a Leica, with a Leica Lens. Has Mr. Kim expressed a desire to perform this conversion on another? I’d imagine he’s getting familiar with the process....now I must ask a silly question here, is UR pronounced “Oar”, or You’re”?

[Ambro51]

Also, though I have built 418 cameras....I’m in no way going to understimate the skill and knowledge required in this. One question, is the replacement of the “lens” with the correct 42 mm mikro-summar an involved process, or simply replacing/unscrewing and threading in the new lens/cell?

[George Furst]

A most fascinating thread! I have just purchased an UR and also a Null Series. Both are currently aboard jets approaching from different sides of the World. I eagerly await using the Null, and the prospect of an operational UR is VERY enticing! I must say your images are stunning! Who would believe “that” camera produced them, but of course it IS a Leica, with a Leica Lens. Has Mr. Kim expressed a desire to perform this conversion on another? I’d imagine he’s getting familiar with the process....now I must ask a silly question here, is UR pronounced “Oar”, or You’re”?

I will first try to answer the question about the pronunciation of UR. I pronounce it “You’re”. But I defer this question to a speaker of the German Language as it stands for a German word and they pronounce the alphabet differently than we English do.

 

Yes, Mr. Kim has asked me about more conversions and that is why I am having him make another on the assumption that someone else would like to have an operating UR Leica. I love the camera and it is my favorite film camera. I love the way it operates, its construction and size, and its excellent resolution. I too was surprised with the final pictures and so much so that I started developing all my films as I couldn’t wait for the developed pictures from the photo shop in Seoul. I continue to take pictures and recently developed some excellent examples of what this 100 year old Leitz Summar 42mm lens is capable of. It is a wonderful feeling to experience what Barnack and Ernst Leitz experienced. My only question is why didn’t Wetzlar produce the camera back in 1914 when they learned what a fine camera they had. Maybe that is because the camera design was ahead of the available movie film (or was it the war?). What I refer to is the “Lag factor”. The optics of the camera was ahead of the available film. Now we are able to appreciate the full capability of the camera because modern film is finer grained and much faster than film available then. Of course my inspiration in this project was the pictures taken soon after the UR Camera was made. I knew from them that we were starting with excellent optics.

[George Furst]

Also, though I have built 418 cameras....I’m in no way going to understimate the skill and knowledge required in this. One question, is the replacement of the “lens” with the correct 42 mm mikro-summar an involved process, or simply replacing/unscrewing and threading in the new lens/cell?

The 42mm Micro Summar lens fits perfectly into the telescoping barrel of the UR Dummy made by Leitz craftsmen. I do not know what adjustments Mr Kim had to make to optimize the optics. I will only say that it does fit as though the UR Leica was designed for that lens.

[Ambro51]

Thanks for your reply. I would be interested in a conversion. I recall reading another camera had a patent regarding 35mm film and Leitz waited for its expiration, I’m sure those more expert here can expound on this.

[Ambro51]

George, is this the proper lens? https://m.ebay.com/itm/Leica-E-Leitz-Wetzlar-42mm-2-Summar-30776-1/282851091910?hash=item41db3d25c6:g:tjYAAOSwCoBah04N

[Guest Nowhereman]

George - Fascinating thread and excellent work on your part. Love the pictures, particularly the ones with Kodak Tmax-100 pushed to ISO 400.

 

On the pronunciation of the German prefix "ur" (meaning "proto-", "primitive", "first", "original"): it's pronounced the way we would say "oor" in English, as in "boor".

 

Someone mentioned above that Leica should make a working copy of the Ur-Leica. One can get a feel of the effort and expense involved by reading these Nikon articles on replicas of cameras originally released only some 50 years earlier: the 2000 replica of the S3 and the 2005 replace of the SP, the original SP described by Nikon as having been "developed to directly compete with the great rangefinder camera Leica M3".

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Edited March 7, 2018 by Nowhereman

[Ambro51]

I didn’t think Leica was scared of expense in the least ;-)

[Ambro51]

Looks like my UR Leica is going to arrive tomorrow! Very Excited! Now I need Mr. Kim to work his Magic for me

[Ambro51]

Halloooo George, are you out there? My UR is about 4 hours away from being delivered!

[Ambro51]

well Now I can see how easily George fell in love with the UR! The ultimate Barnack experience! I’m ready to make it Alive!

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[Ambro51]

Now, George didn’t run off here, we just decided it was better to carry on the conversion details by email :-)

[Ambro51]

Here we have an image of the UR Leica without the bizarre flip up finder. This is from the 1938 edition of “The Leica Manual”. Strange to think this camera was only 25 years old at that point, and still called “UR” (ancient) .

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Edited March 11, 2018 by Ambro51

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[Ambro51]

The Replica in the same pose,

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