Focusing Metaphysics

[lars_bergquist]

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This is a mystery. I bought a mint 90mm Elmarit-M second-hand. No guaranty. I found that on my M8, it back-focused by half a meter at middle distances. So that was why I got it that cheap ... I contacted Solms. Their only advice was to send in both the lens and the M8 for adjustment. I took the advice, and they sat on the lens and my camera for two months, and after that I paid a bill about equal to what I bought the lens for. (It was still a good deal, in money!) So now I had a correctly calibrated Elmarit, right? Wrong.

 

For some months later I exchanged my M8 for a M9. And the lens back-focused again. Now by about 8--10 centimeters at 2 meters, but enough to ruin my portraits. So ... I contacted Solms again.

 

And what did the Kundendienst tell me? "Send both the lens and the camera to us." -- So again, I am expected to leave my camera and lens in Solms for two months, and then ransom them with about the sum I originally paid for the lens. Now this is beginning to hurt.

 

The actual mystery is this: I own quite a number of lenses in M mount, some made in Solms, some in Wetzlar, up to half a century ago, and some even made elsewhere. All these lenses, including a couple of Summiluxes, focus perfectly on my M9. They do that because the movements of their focusing helicals and their rangefinder cams have been calibrated to keep within certain tolerances. As long as they do that, they focus correctly. This is not even a new trick. Already around 1932, Leitz bragged about this in their promotional literature: "All Leica lenses come calibrated so that they focus correctly on all Leica camera bodies."

 

But now they say: "Don't send them back to us, however, because if you do, we have never heard about the tolerances stipulated by the manufacturing department. We can't bring your lens back to tolerances, because we have never heard about any tolerances. We have to adjust the lens by a trial and error procedure. And in order to do that, we need your camera, because we've never heard of any camera tolerances either. 27.8mm +/- 0.01mm? First time we hear about that."

 

Now, if that is true, then this says irrefutably that they can't calibrate new lenses for focus either -- because they do not have the cameras they are going to be used on. And still they do that. A feat that Leica Camera AG claims is impossible. A few months ago, I even tried a 0.95 Noctilux. Spot on for focus wide open at 2 meters. A miracle! What saint is responsible for this? And in a predominantly Lutheran part of Germany, too. Needless to say, the Kundendienst was not able to answer that question. They can only repeat their little ditty: "Send in lens and camera to us and we'll fix it." In the fullness of time and at a price of c. €400.

 

Does anybody else have a credible explanation of this logically impossible state of things? New lenses can be calibrated to a standard, but old lenses can't?

 

The old man from the Age of Optical Atheism (no saints allowed)

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[jaapv]

The answer is quite simple - the tolerance is equal to the thickness of one beard-hair of a gnome. Now the thickness of that hair grows less with age, and CS has no samples of decades-old hair. So they need the camera for old lenses.

[Bo_Lorentzen]

LOL... it seems to me that all lenses are mechanical devices.

 

Personally I would put a little fingernail polish on that lens focusing cam. until the focus is brought into range. though 8-10cm is kind of a lot to correct this way. try a couple of layers of painters masking tape to get a idea how far the cam is out.

 

As your M9 body is perfect, I really would not want them to be messing too much with that.

 

Wild guess, they simply like the QA guy to take a look through the combo and see that it is working before sending the stuff back.. however Steve in Los Angeles have done this for me several times and never wanted to see my camera even when asked. and he have a very cool very old rangefinder lens calibration box, maybe solms need to make him a offer he can not refuse for the calibrated box.? (until they can get their own)

 

.

[lars_bergquist]

I presented the above conundrum to the Kundendienst, and this is their reply:

 

"Dear Mr. Bergquist,

Thank you for your mail.

Please send both to our workshop for adjustment, lens and camera.

If another new lens will be out of focus with your M9 cannot be said before.

Perhaps it will have a correct focuss.

 

Kind regards

 

Customer Service

Ursula Brand-Gerheim"

 

This may not be the appropriate forum for discussions about logic.

 

The old relic from the Age of Reason

[lars_bergquist]

Bo, can you give me the address of Steve in L.A.?

 

The perversely logical old man

[lars_bergquist]

The answer is quite simple - the tolerance is equal to the thickness of one beard-hair of a gnome. Now the thickness of that hair grows less with age, and CS has no samples of decades-old hair. So they need the camera for old lenses.

 

The serial no. is 3678xxx so it was made in 1995. Gnomes age slowly -- look at all those Gartenzwerge that infest the Bundesrepublik. They stand in that sulphurous rain and seem to like it. I think a modern Gnome of Solms would do perfectly well.

 

The old man with a degree in gnomology

[jaapv]

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I would send the lens to Wil van Manen. He is clean-shaven...

[elgenper]

A conundrum, indeed - and a disgrace!

 

I´ve owned about 7 LTM bodies, and a number of lenses; no misfocussing any time. I still own an M 2 and 3 lenses from the ´60:es, all bought used on different occasions: no misfocussing.

 

Got my M 9 in February, and started using my 3 oldies with it: perfect focus on all 3. But, I wanted something ´snappier´, so I bought a brand new Summicron 35 Asph the week after my M9 arrived - and it backfocussed right out of the box! Back to Solms (my dealer didn´t have another in stock; he offered me a Summarit as a loaner, but I used my old lens). It was gone for 65 days! While waiting, I bought a 2nd hand Apo Summicron 75 Asph - again, perfect focus. And, finally, the new 35 returned, focus OK

 

Then, 3 weeks ago, the ring with the focussing tab on suddenly came loose on that infernal lens! So now it´s with Solms again....

 

I´ve given up all plans of buying new lenses; I´ll use my battle-worn oldies from now on (plus that marvellous 75..). I consider demanding a refund on that new 35: out of the 275 days I´ve owned it, it has been defective or away for 115 days - and I´ve not even got a repair tracking number yet, so I don´t know when I´ll see it again.

 

None of my plastic Canon or Nikon lenses ever misbehaved this way. The only other dud lens I´ve ever got was a Sigma. No company for Leica to be proud of, I´d say....

[wizard]

I would send the lens to Leica's Customer Service along with the apparently four month old bill for already having it adjusted. The tolerances for having a lens adjusted to M8 standard should be the same as the M9 standard. Which implies that your previously adjusted lens should work just fine on your M9. If indeed it doesn't they should fix that for free (after all, you should still enjoy some kind of warranty on the work performed on the lens).

 

My only concern with sending in the camera would be that once it comes back it'll work fine with your Elmarit 90, but may be not so fine with at least some of your other lenses. Then, of course, they will request you to send in the camera and ALL of your lenses ...

 

Andy

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Lars,

 

Steve = http://www.stevecamera.com/

 

Is that email from solms really saying that "perhaps now it will be focus" ? I would feel more assured if it was a firm statement.

 

Totally agree with Andy, this is a reference calibration, it should be right the first time, the camera match thing is for people worries about +- 2-3mm not for 80-100mm error.

 

.

[jaapv]

i would refuse to send in a perfectly good M9. They should be able to get the lens spot-on without it.

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[tdtaylor]

I read all of this with my jaw on the ground. As previously said, how do they calibrate cameras and lenses out of the factory if there is not a standard?

 

On the other hand, it took three rounds in the first 6 months I had the M9 to get the focus close to accurate- maybe this explains it.

[lct]

I would do what i've been doing for 30+ years. Keep the good body and send in the faulty lens to a trustable workshop of your choice.

[matlep]

I have a Summilux 50 wich was fine om my M8 but was out of focus on longer distances on my M9. I got the same replyas Lars from ursula "Send both the camera and the lens" and the same advice came from my dealer.

 

But since all my other lenses were perfect on my cmaera, i refused to send both. So i just sent away the lens.

 

4 weeks later it came back "adjusted" and is now perfect on my camera.

 

So i guess they don´t need the camera after all.

[UliWer]

I am sure they don't need a camera to achieve exact focus for any Leica lens.

 

I think, if they could, they would ask for the user or at least his glasses to come to Solms to be calibrated to their standards. As one already may have red in this forum, there are users, who strongly believe that their lenses are wrong. I - who was brought up a lutheran in a region not far from Wetzlar - was absolutely sure in my believe that my 75mm Summicron had back- and front-focus at the same time. Only since I used other glasses I turned agnostic to all misfocussing of this lens,

 

As they can neither ask for the users themselves nor for their glasses and lacking any knowledge, whether perhaps recent lecture of Swedenborg's works might have led to the complaint, they just want to go sure about those things they know about: that's the lens and it's camera. Perhaps the lens is o.k, but the rangefinder off? Perhaps it helps some users being told that their camera has been newly calibrated to Leica standards, when it is only wiped over with a duster?

 

Who knows?

 

I should just send in the lens together with the receipt for the last CLA it had in Solms and exspect them to do their duties.

[pop]

That will teach you not to use bifocal lenses with the Leica M, even if it's an elderly camera.

[menos I M6]

Lars, I am curious, how your story turns out, especially in regard of cost for re calibrating (should be under warranty of the first calibration) and shipping cost.

 

I have send a mint 50 Summilux ASPH to Leica for coding some months ago.

Leica has informed me, that it would take focus calibration for additional costs, which I approved.

The lens came back adjusted (definitely different from what it was before) and coded.

 

Unfortunately, it is my only lens, that is off at infinity and shows misfocus also at close distances.

It is not usable this way and resides in stock.

 

I received a warranty document for the lens from Leica, but was reluctant, to do the send around over Schmidt Marketing to Solms again.

 

My other lenses include several newly bought samples and many second hand lenses including a Noctilux v4.

All are spot on @ infinity and focus good at other distances, as can be expected.

I would not send my M8.2 with the 50 Lux for recalibration.

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[lars_bergquist]

Lars,

 

Steve = http://www.stevecamera.com/

 

Is that email from solms really saying that "perhaps now it will be focus" ? I would feel more assured if it was a firm statement.

 

Totally agree with Andy, this is a reference calibration, it should be right the first time, the camera match thing is for people worries about +- 2-3mm not for 80-100mm error.

 

.

 

Steve, the text was cut and pasted from the actual email. Start worrying.

 

The slightly de-focused old man (the Japanese call it 'boke')

[lars_bergquist]

Thanks for the responses, and the commiseration. (I do lap up the bewildered indignation, too.)

 

Here are some technical details. No, I don't use bifocals, but progressives. The picture shows a c. 25% linear crop; the focusing was done with the aid of a Leica 1.4x finder magnifier, and is a typical part of a whole series, which also includes exposures made with my Apo-Telyt, which was spot on. Exposure made at 1:2.8 at 1.5m. Lighted by flash.

 

The rangefinder was focused on the 'K' on the carton, i.e. at 30cm on the ruler. You can see that the plane of focus is some 6cm behind, which, considering the angle, should be closer to 8cm, perpendicularly.

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Sending the lens out of the E.U. would of course lead to all sorts of hassles with customs and V.A.T. (25% in Sweden!) So, Jaap, I'll try the well-shaven Mr van Manen. I see he's googleable.

 

The hirsute old man

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