How will future system camera look like?

[janki]

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How will future system camera look like?

 

Photokina 2010 had little news to offer.

 

It seems that most camera manufacturers have understood, that market want the size and weight, even on "high end" system cameras, reduced.

But, the industry itself, just not knows exactly how that can be achieved.

Everyone seems to agree that the last remnants of traditional movable parts, has to be removed.

The traditional mirror / pentaprism viewfinder seems to be the main obstacle to bringing down the weight and size. But the electronic viewfinder is currently no serious alternative to this.

 

Nikon says that they are among those planning a completely new compact camera system.

Olympus has probably made its last system camera with a movable mirror.

Sony will not make new FF DSLR models with traditional mirror / pentaprism viewfinder.

What happens behind closed doors at Leica?

Will they manage to keep up with the “rat race” that is now apparently happens when it comes to the design of future system cameras?

 

I myself, I dream about lenses optimally designed for digital image chips, based on a compact weather sealed camera body with a weight well under 1000 grams.

 

And of course, the image quality must at least be equal to the so-called FF-film quality.

It is vital, in my opinion that the next generation of new camera systems, generally performs better when it comes to producing consistent quality throughout the picture plane, from one corner to the next.

It seems in fact to be one of the biggest weaknesses of today’s digital image technology

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[luigi bertolotti]

I start from three considerations :

1) The system cameras, even if targeted to consumers, are anyway developed on the basis on what is needed by pros.

2) Apart the studio specialists, I do not imagine a pro working in a way different from posing his/her eye against a finder, looking and shooting in a single action.

3) DSLR have been developed around the above concept, trying to maintain the action moment (really the decisive one) the most similar to what they were accustomed to: camera setting and image processing have been deeply changed by digital, but not the critical moment of taking... AF, zooming, continuous shots, exp. bracketing were tools already acquired at film times.

 

So, I think that or the EVF technology can do a significative leap, or things will remain like now for a rather long time. The only futurible perspective could be a convergence of video with photo, with proper gear... sometime you read something on this topic... it seems an oddity to me, but I'm far from being an expert about.

 

Leica can no more be a trendsetter on this issue, anyway, it's a niche player with loyal and passionate customers... and, imho, we can simply hope it will be able to stay alive with its excellences, trying to carve smartly some new niches when they see an opportunity (we will see how the S2 venture goes on).

[earleygallery]

It won't look like anything you'd recognise today. It may not need any additional lenses, what if digital zoom could provide the same quality regardless? What if a small digicam sized unit could provide the same current quality as an S2?

[redbaron]

I'm typing this reply on it. ;-)

[NZDavid]

I don't accept that the real needs of photographers are the driving force; it's cost and profit.

 

Eradicating optical viewfinders is one trend likely to continue. Apparently LCDs are cheaper and the extra finders are just an extra cost.

 

Gimmicky software modes and features are cheaper to develop than real advances in image quality and performance. Even so, improvements in dynamic range do make a real difference, as does development in ergonomics -- and the realization that newer is not always necessarily better.

 

It would be nice to see any new camera that was upgradeable and future-proof, but once again that is unlikely as there is more profit to be had from forcing photographers to upgrade every few years to new models.

 

One completely forgotten imperative is the environment, along with energy and the availability of basic raw materials. Absolutely nobody likes to consider the sustainability of technological products; it's as if improvements will continue ad infinitum. We may be in for a shock.

 

No matter what new technological developments arise, it is unlikely they will be matched by a comparable advance in the ability to make quality pictures.

 

------

 

"I have just bought the world's most advanced camera. Unfortunately I can't find anything worth photographing."

[lars_bergquist]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with David.

 

In the future, there will be DSLR cameras, DEVIL cameras, mobile phones, and one DRF camera.

 

The main question just now is when a camera with a fully electronic viewfinder will be approximately as useful as a DSLR. The limiting factors are, first, viewfinder resolution, second, viewfinder lag, and third, autofocus speed. The two last points depend on the refresh rate of the sensor. Present larger sensors have been developed for SLR cameras, so the refresh rate is low. A higher rate will mean more power consumption and more heat to dissipate. So battery technology comes into the equation, too.

 

The old man from the Age when Batteries were Artillery

[luigi bertolotti]

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I don't accept that the real needs of photographers are the driving force; it's cost and profit.

 

 

 

Cost and profit, I agree, are the driving force in any industry; but my piont is that, speaking of SYSTEM cameras (there will always be P&S around, it'so from the first Kodak... ) if someone makes a camera that FITS the need of pro photographers, they will buy it in thousands, making it a profitable product, which in turn airises a trend in the industry.

[lars_bergquist]

Luigi, try applying that reasoning to the automobile market. How many suburban dwellers buy SUVs because they need them (in any practical sense)? They buy them because it is the in thing, and the ad hustlers decide what's the in thing.

 

In all mass markets, consumers ar pawns and not kings. In the heyday of the SLR, how many bought them because of a genuine photographic purpose? It is an official secret that most of them never saw any other lens than the kit standard one. But carrying one around marked you as a Knowledgeable Photographer.

 

And the mobile phone is the point-and-shoot of the future. One or two technical generations from now (meaning four to six years) 98% of all people who occasionally want to take a picture won't need anything more. Except of course Internet, SMS, voice phone and GPS ... no big deal.

 

The old man from the Carbon-Zinc Age

[janki]

Yes, the future will certainly have several different technical solutions to communicate with images.

 

I have noticed that children and young people today, have very great pleasure of only playing with images, taken with the simplest cameras or just only the cell phone.

They shoot a situation, let everyone around have a look at the result on the LCD screen, and then delete it all.

At the other extreme we find the stationary studio-camera, whose task is to lay the groundwork for the very biggest and best-printed images, and the big heavy high-performance cameras to a news reporter who works with the car as a base.

 

I expect that not only cell phones, but also "high end" cameras in the future probably will be a kind of multimedia machines that do a lot more than just producing images.

 

Yes, I wish that the producers of the future camera systems would think more environmentally friendly by producing camera systems that have longer duration than a few years.

Yes, maybe it's possible to envision a system where the electronics section of a camera can be upgraded as the development goes ahead, about the same as it is done on a computer.

 

I understand that it currently is a kind of uncertainty among camera manufacturers about the direction development should take in terms of new camera systems.

 

The question is who jumps first, Nikon or Canon. All the other producers will quickly be following their school.

However, everything indicates that we have to wait longer than the Photokina 2012 before we see new camera systems materialize.

It is also well in line with what Leica has suggested in relation to their "solution".

(Note in particular that I did not mention the letter R).

[cheewai_m6]

I personally think we will soon be seeing retro styled dslr from nikon and canon. dslr cameras that look like nikon FM and the like.

 

of course leica's been on the retro digital camera since the m8, simply by not changing its form of tradtional M. followed by m9 and x1, but fuji is now on the bandwagon. i think nikon and canon will soon be as well. i could be wrong, but i just think it will.

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Consumer market depends on what can be moved to consumers and force a must have trend, The last week I have hiked in hong kong and have. Never seen so many guys with dslrs all except one with lens cap firmly attached, and a shocking amount of girls with G12 cameras, and a few girls with old Olympus 35mm RF cameras,, must be a fashion trend, so yes I agree wi cheewai that we will see more retro bodies, sadly I have only seen two M cameras, both with lens caps in place ready for... Well never mind,

 

As or pro users, the future will probably see a system sensor which can be configurable for weddings and studio, along with some type of sports and news megazoom gizmo Pro evil cameras. I doubt the SLR form factor is here to stay.

 

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[J_Thompson]

And the mobile phone is the point-and-shoot of the future. One or two technical generations from now (meaning four to six years) 98% of all people who occasionally want to take a picture won't need anything more.

 

I fear you have hit the nail on the head, Lars. Sad but true, but then there were "idiot-proof" point-and-shoot film cameras 30 years ago, so in the end, I guess, nothing is lost.

[NZDavid]

Mobile phones the P&S of the future? Good point. I think they are already becoming the P&S of today. A lot depends on end use of images: many are kept only in electronic form, and never printed.

 

Serious photographers will always want something more, however, and pro needs will be different again. Perhaps fast, inbuilt data transfer (integrated cell phone, internet?) would be the way to go. A super duper mobile phone as it were.

 

As for system cameras, the DSLR is already under threat from the DEVIL cameras. And there is no denying that they have many advantages, not least of which is size. Pros I have spoken to would absolutely love a lighter system so they don't have to risk serious back and shoulder strain lugging around masses of gear.

[luigi bertolotti]

Luigi, try applying that reasoning to the automobile market. How many suburban dwellers buy SUVs because they need them (in any practical sense)? They buy them because it is the in thing, and the ad hustlers decide what's the in thing.

 

In all mass markets, consumers ar pawns and not kings. In the heyday of the SLR, how many bought them because of a genuine photographic purpose? It is an official secret that most of them never saw any other lens than the kit standard one. But carrying one around marked you as a Knowledgeable Photographer.

 

And the mobile phone is the point-and-shoot of the future. One or two technical generations from now (meaning four to six years) 98% of all people who occasionally want to take a picture won't need anything more. Except of course Internet, SMS, voice phone and GPS ... no big deal.

 

The old man from the Carbon-Zinc Age

 

True, Lars, but I referred strictly to PRO photographers, people for who the camera is one of the tools they use to earn their living , not a private car, but a taxi or a truck: I won't say that they are "kings" , but imho history tells that when a product is really good for them, it spreads and thean reaches quickly the consumer market (where, in time, it enters indeed the logic of mass markets, where consumers are pawns); speaking of SLR, you're right to say that most buyers didn't use them for their genuine value, but why did SLR spread so widely in the market ? For me, because at a certain moment some manufacturer (Nikon, probably) made from an old concept a product so well engineered, conceived and complete that pros understood and accepted that it was really the right tool for LOT of them, and could really be the substitute of their typical 35mm tool (the Leica... ).

[luigi bertolotti]

...

 

As or pro users, the future will probably see a system sensor which can be configurable for weddings and studio, along with some type of sports and news megazoom gizmo Pro evil cameras. I doubt the SLR form factor is here to stay.

 

.

 

This is one of my speculations too... why technology wouldn't be capable to deliver a "someway universal" digital back (sensor/shutter+LCD+CPU+basic power and storage) to be fit onto different bodies ("heavy" SLR, with extra power, for heavy zooms, "light" SLR, EVIL, "studio set"...). Would be this the future way, we'll have to pay another posthumus tribute to Leica... ... people should admit that DMR wasn't a silly idea, if only...

[Nicoleica]

Consumer market depends on what can be moved to consumers and force a must have trend, The last week I have hiked in hong kong and have. Never seen so many guys with dslrs all except one with lens cap firmly attached, and a shocking amount of girls with G12 cameras, and a few girls with old Olympus 35mm RF cameras,, must be a fashion trend, so yes I agree wi cheewai that we will see more retro bodies, sadly I have only seen two M cameras, both with lens caps in place ready for... Well never mind,

 

As or pro users, the future will probably see a system sensor which can be configurable for weddings and studio, along with some type of sports and news megazoom gizmo Pro evil cameras. I doubt the SLR form factor is here to stay.

 

.

 

Excuse me for asking Bo, but why do you have a problem with people using lens caps? I always keep my lens cap firmly in place unless I am actually making a photograph. (Or expecting to make one very soon.) It takes only moments to remove or replace a lens cap.

[dickgrafixstop]

The camera of the future may look very much like the VLux2, a compact body with a high quality long zoom range lens, optical viewfinder with eyepiece or screen selection, flexible single frame or film clip selection, improved battery life with any short comings in raw images "improved" with a software package like photoshop, albiet with "customized" easy to use features for the raw format of the camera.

[Guest BigSplash]

Surely the consumer will want something that sells for about £1500 max to £600 with a zoom lens and is smaller and lighter than today's DSLR offering....most likely an EVIL solution or the new VLUX2 fits the specification.

 

Pro users seem to be using different kit depending on whether they are starting up in business or are already serving at the high end. Add to that the diversity of needs for fashion photographers, or wedding or sports or the many specialist pros we read about here it is difficult to define an ideal Pro system offering. The PRO will be ready to pay more but IMHO most Pros will think twice before going to S2. They will want access to a true system camera which I take today to mean:

• Access to a range of high quality prime lenses
  
• Access to high speed lenses with corner to corner sharpness, and high contrast
  
• Excellent QC
  
• High reliablity
  
• Rugged build quality
  
• Fast turnaround customer repair service
  
• Ability to handle macro photography (not needed by some pros eg sports guys)
  
• Ability to handle telephoto lenses (not needed by some pros..eg wedding guys)
  
• Small size and weight with a set of lenses (an issue for pros that travel internationally).
  
• Fast continuous mode
  
• Ability to shoot many frames in continuous mode
  
• Large ISO range ( 80 generic to a few thousand without noise issues)
  
• Value for money ( equivalent to M9 and its lenses max. and Canon or Nikon high end would be better)
  

I am sure that we all have a view on where the Leica M is placed against the above criteria today and what could be tomorrow. I have shown in blue where I think Leica differentiates itself against any competitor today. The other items are all things that I believe Leica could address over time and hopefully they are way down the road in doing so.

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[janki]

I personally think we will soon be seeing retro styled dslr from nikon and canon. dslr cameras that look like nikon FM and the like.

 

of course leica's been on the retro digital camera since the m8, simply by not changing its form of tradtional M. followed by m9 and x1, but fuji is now on the bandwagon. i think nikon and canon will soon be as well. i could be wrong, but i just think it will.

 

Thank you cheewai_m6. Your words are my dreams.

For an enthusiast like me, who has always carried around the camera in a backpack, a retro digital Nikon FM would have been fantastic.

I actually think Nikon really serious pursuits to offer such a camera concept. They are talking about a system that in a way can use lenses with F-mount, and it is not necessarily talk about an EVIL body.

Basically I guess I'm a "retro" guy. It's probably one of the reasons I like the Leica camera brand.

Mobile phone-like devices will never achieve the possibility to replace a classical-like camera for me.

[cheewai_m6]

Mobile phone-like devices will never achieve the possibility to replace a classical-like camera for me.

 

i was in europe recently, the amount of tourists taking photos with their iphones instead af an actual camera is alarming. i mean, good luck to them if they feel that's all the need. but it's, sad. electronic fads are invading into our passion and degrading what photography used to stand for.