Cruewell Posted January 13, 2007 Share #1 Â Posted January 13, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) In case someone hasn't noticed yet, I am quite ignorant on most photographic matters. I guess accepting this as a fact is a good starting point. Anyway, excuse me if I ask questions that may be obvious to more experienced people. Â I notice an amazing difference between pictures taken with any of the digital cameras I've owned which were later converted to greyscale, and pictures I shot originally in B&W film and then digitised myself. So I am wondering if this is just the way things are or there are ways to improve conversion to B&W from original colour shots. Â Here are a couple of examples, the lower one is the digitised negative, and to my inexpert eye looks a lot richer, deeper, don't-know-how-to-say-it-but-basically-better than the other (even though it was taken with a humble, tiny, 35 mm. Minox). Â Â Â Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Hi Cruewell, Take a look here Best way to turn color pictures into B&W?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted January 13, 2007 Share #2 Â Posted January 13, 2007 Jose, converting to greyscale isn't the best way to go, as you've noted yourself it can give rather flat results. Â I use a couple of Photoshop plugins, Power Retouch and Alien Skin. If you don't want to spend the money on a plugin, Google something like 'black and white channel mixer', this should give you some alternative methods - assuming you use Photoshop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
strick Posted January 13, 2007 Share #3 Â Posted January 13, 2007 I notice an amazing difference between pictures taken with any of the digital cameras I've owned which were later converted to greyscale, and pictures I shot originally in B&W film and then digitised myself. So I am wondering if this is just the way things are or there are ways to improve conversion to B&W from original colour shots.[/img] Â I think, this is the way things are. Each type of b/w film has a special trademark which can't be imitated in the digital process - not really, afaik. Besides that, looking at your two examples, one might think that film has a trademark, and digital has none. Â Cheers, Greg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruewell Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #4 Â Posted January 13, 2007 I do use Photoshop CS, though only to a fraction of it's potential. Â I used to think the main difference was due to how the grain still shows in the digitised negative (I keep it on purpose, I love the look of the 400 ASA grain, the film I used most often in the past), but there's definetely more differences showing in there. Â The 35 mm shot was taken during a bicycle tour (thus the tiny Minox) of Eastern Europe where I soon run out of Kodak film. All I could find was a local brand called ORWO, I wonder if anyone in this forum has ever used it. It turned out to be a pretty decent film, and I had no choices anyway, so... But if film does have a trademark, I am sure ORWO's is quite unique. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted January 13, 2007 Share #5  Posted January 13, 2007 In PS, use the «Channel mixer». Check «Monochrome» and try different combinations of R, G and B. Anything goes as long as it adds up to about 100%. Then you can convert to «Grayscale» (or not), adjust levels, curves, contrast, etc... You can also add some noise (Gaussian) to replicate (though not perfectly) the effect of grain. If you keep your photo in RGB, you can use «Photo filter» to a low density to add a bit of sepia tint and approximate the look of your scanned film negative.  Another method to convert in b&w is the «Gradient map», which you adjust from both sides (black and white) and from the mid-tones.  But, no matter what you try, I don't think you can really replicate exactly the look of b&w film from a digital image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruewell Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #6 Â Posted January 13, 2007 Thanks a lot, guys. As always, Leica Forum members are a great source of information. Â Great photographs, Olivier! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_parker Posted January 13, 2007 Share #7 Â Posted January 13, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Steve + Hello Luis !! Â I remember you saying that you use Alien Skin as a plug in for B+W conversion - when I looked on the site for a trial version, it wasn't obvious which product the B+W conversion plug-ins were in - could you tell me which one to look at please ? Â As you know I've also used Fred Miranda's B+W workflow pro, which I found very good with a wide range of presets to mimic certain filters or effects but I think you said that it may apply a destructive conversion process to the file (which means you need to remember to always be working on a copy - ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwolf Posted January 13, 2007 Share #8 Â Posted January 13, 2007 Jose, Â There are many PS conversion techniques, but a few are considered best. Google this topic and you will find endless discussion and instruction . You could also join NAPP (photoshopuser.com), which has many tutorials on this and related topics. Â John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_john Posted January 13, 2007 Share #9 Â Posted January 13, 2007 I am also experimenting with B&W conversion of M8 files, and the two best approaches (to my liking) are Alien Skin Exposure and JFI Labs profiles. Â Alien Skin Exposure, a plug-in for PS, has filters for converting color image to a number of types of B&W and color film. In addition to "standard" look for each film type, you can further modify color channels, contrast, sharpening and grain... all independently. It is very flexible and controlable, and I'm impressed with its ease of use and results. You can try it for 30 days before deciding (Alien Skin Software, LLC) Â JFI Labs profiles are a used in Capture One as a camera profile (Color Management Settings) so you can work in B&W for the entire work flow. This allows you to make your changes for levels, curves, color content, etc prior to converting the raw file. I've only been using JFI profiles for a few days, but I think the results of converting to B&W during raw conversion may have some advantages. I believe JFI profiles can also be used in PS by using "Assign Profile" under the Edit menu; but I've not tried them that way. You can get more specifics at JFI Color Labs... no trial, but not very expensive ($19.95). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 13, 2007 Share #10  Posted January 13, 2007 Robert, like John I've been pleased with the Alien Skin plugin - so much so that I bought it. There's a direct link to the relevant page here...  Exposure  Just as an example here's a colour image...  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!   And here it is converted to b&w using the Tri-X preset...    Here's a section at 100% showing the grain the plugin has added...  Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!   And here it is converted to b&w using the Tri-X preset...    Here's a section at 100% showing the grain the plugin has added...  ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/13370-best-way-to-turn-color-pictures-into-bw/?do=findComment&comment=141088'>More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 13, 2007 Share #11 Â Posted January 13, 2007 Â The 35 mm shot was taken during a bicycle tour (thus the tiny Minox) of Eastern Europe where I soon run out of Kodak film. All I could find was a local brand called ORWO, I wonder if anyone in this forum has ever used it. It turned out to be a pretty decent film, and I had no choices anyway, so... But if film does have a trademark, I am sure ORWO's is quite unique. Â ORWO I think is/was the part of AGFA that wound up behind the 'Iron Curtain' (remember it?). Due to aggressive litigation by the West Germans, who are even more obsessed by this indoor sport than the Americans, they had to change the name, just as the Zeiss Jena works were prohibited from using the Zeiss name and the old lens names like 'Tessar' and 'Biogon'. All to the greater glory of the Free World (remember that too?) Â The old man from the Palaeolithic Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnastovall Posted January 13, 2007 Share #12 Â Posted January 13, 2007 I'm using C1 with the JFI profiles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted January 13, 2007 Share #13  Posted January 13, 2007 There are many ways to achieve B&W conversion other than grayscale, which is in my opinion the least desirable. One way is to use the channel mixer as described above. Another is the two-layer method converting the bottom layer to grayscale, then going back into RGB and desaturating the top layer before gradually adding hue back to achieve a tone you like. Finally, the B&W conversion from iCorrect EditLab Pro is excellent, and I've received more compliments from others on the Photo Forum when using that tool than any other.  Having said that, the most interesting and convenient method is simply to download Alien Skin Exposure. Here are some examples I culled to demonstrate how it replicates the look of different well-known films.  First is TriX 400 (familiar to almost everyone here), followed by Ilford Delta 3200, followed by Neopan Acros 100:  This is expensive software to be sure, but if you like playing around with the B&W look and want to replicate it digitally, it can't be beat.  Thanks.  Allan Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/13370-best-way-to-turn-color-pictures-into-bw/?do=findComment&comment=141094'>More sharing options...
johnwolf Posted January 13, 2007 Share #14 Â Posted January 13, 2007 Jose, Â Just another thought. The Lightroom grayscale conversion is also excellent, and the download is stillf free. Â John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrogers Posted January 13, 2007 Share #15 Â Posted January 13, 2007 I use the JFI profiles with Raw Developer. Easy and beautiful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Flatline Posted January 13, 2007 Share #16 Â Posted January 13, 2007 I don't have a specific answer or suggested solution. I use an Action in PS to convert to B&W. Â Result: Â Â The point is: Great B+W conversion from color is possible, but like Tomato Sauce, there's a million different ways to do it. The key ingredient is experimentation resulting in experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruewell Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share #17 Â Posted January 13, 2007 More thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasl.se Posted January 13, 2007 Share #18 Â Posted January 13, 2007 Alien Skin Exposure users, Â When converting color JPGs to B&W through emulation, how do you treat chroma noise when that's an issue? Do you use the channel mixer or something else in PS, or take the colors straight to Exposure? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactrix Posted January 13, 2007 Share #19  Posted January 13, 2007 Hi, 1. I prefer B&W Converter Pro to convert from jpeg and Raw Converter. Both are on payment but is very easy to use it. Particulary, the B&W Converter Pro have the film settings for TriX, ilford delta etc. It is very easy to rich great B&W images, with full tonal range good contrast and soft tones. All the samples was converting with B&W Converter Pro.    2- I've been used ORWO for a lot of years and I like the feel of this brand from East Germany (maybe becouse there was not another choice in Romania). At a moment the import of this brand was stoped. It was replaced by a Romanian brand called Azomures, but I think it was not at the same level ( I never used it) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/13370-best-way-to-turn-color-pictures-into-bw/?do=findComment&comment=141243'>More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted January 13, 2007 Share #20 Â Posted January 13, 2007 I don't have a specific answer or suggested solution. I use an Action in PS to convert to B&W. Â Result: Â That's a very nice conversion; did you make the action yourself? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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