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M6 TTL or M7?


zimboom

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Bernard, exploring your website, I truly think, that from a functional perspective, you would benefit more form the M7.

 

I see it like this:

The M7, you buy for its functionality, the other film M cameras do not have.

 

The MP, you buy for your heart - it is technically refined, but offers less than a M7, which can be had for a lower price as well. It is the most simple, but refined camera for a life time or another trophy in a glass cabinet.

 

All themes and photographs in your blog can be done with an film M, including your HDRs, Formula 1 and candid shots.

Your HDRs or fine art shots with lot's of dof can be made wonderfully with that bulb setting and counting display - even with fantastic auto exposures timed up to 32sec.

Formula 1 can be shot very nicely with a 135mm (if you don't do much wide angle, shorter than 35mm and wear no glasses, you could even go for a x0.85 viewfinder ).

For the candids, you got the idea already (I use AE a lot in such situations).

 

When you shoot low light a lot (I didn't see that on your site), the AE feature of the M7 diminishes greatly, as you want to use primarily manual shutter speeds, as you constantly surf on the edge of exposures and bright light sources often fool the meter anyway.

 

Do yourself a good thing and try, to find a dealer, who has both cameras for you to hold, fondle and play with.

If you're the functional guy, get the M7, if your heart beats faster, when holding the MP, get the MP.

 

Beware with second hand M7 cameras, that there are older and newer models, which differ slightly (difficult, to check) in their viewfinder (newer models have an upgraded rangefinder, which is improved in strong back or side lit situations, where the older finder gets less contrasty). If you plan, to use the Auto DX film function of the M7 and NOT always want ot set your film speed manually (I do this), then it is safer, to find a body with the upgraded DX reader (look inside the film chamber, you should not see electrical "golden contacts" and the film can should fit and drop out of the body just by itself).

 

Often, these upgraded features are advertised by the seller - the DX reader is easy to check, the viewfinder upgrade should be verified with papers (if it is a late model with DX reader and high SN, it probably has).

 

Good luck, you soon will find, that your DSLR cameras get less and less use ;-) (but don

't dispose of them, they make up a good film scanning rig with a macro lens for your Leica negatives).

 

Nice explanation, but I have found that the M7 in low light and long exposures on a tripod are amazingly accurate.  Here's a quote from Ken Rockwell's site:

 

 

The M7's finder LEDs count-down long auto exposures, and they count up the elapsed time in Bulb mode. You easily can read them from a foot behind the M7 while it's on a tripod, so its as if the M7 is projecting your exposure times out on your subject for your convenience in reading them without touching the camera!

In Bulb, the finder display counts up to 999 seconds (16 minutes) and then turns off to save battery power. If you like long exposures, you're going to love the M7. Once the display turns off after 16 minutes, you can leave the M7's shutter open all year; it only needs battery power again to close the shutter at the end of your exposure.

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To add a personal observation: for thirty years of news photography I used a Gossen Lunasix with Nikon F and Leica M2 and M4. When I went to the M7 and used it in A(uto) mode my exposures were better than ever. Place the blame or praise wherever you wish, but I put the praise to the fast response of Leica's  BTL meter.

 

I am not uninformed or silly;  for quickly changing frames the M7 is my friend.

 

Aside: I also shoot large format with hand-held meters but the changing light-scene is nothing like news, real life photography of which our 35mm mavens live.

 

Peace,

 

I found the same thing; in my case it was F3's and even lately, my Fuji XPro2 gets fooled sometimes by wide lighting ranges, but rarely does the M7 have trouble.  You can actually learn about tonal mapping from the way the M7 renders an image and it gives you the best opportunity to post process digital scans.

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  • 10 months later...

I just sold my M7 and have purchased an M6 TTL in replacment. I will not bad-mouth the M7, other than to say.......if you do not get one with the MP VF/RF, stand-by for some difficulty in use. When I made the decision to buy just such a camera, i.e. with original M7 VF/RF, I was aware of the various commentary on trouble experienced by others with "flare." I figured, how bad can it be? Well, it was bad. In fact, so bad that whenever I used the camera outdoors, and sometimes even indoors, it was a constant struggle to use the RF patch. It really did kill any enjoyment I might have experienced in using an otherwise very fine camera. My camera may have been an exceptionally bad example, but it really killed the experience. If you want an M7, pay the extra to get the better VF/RF.

 

No problems, otherwise. The auto-exposure feature is very nice and the metering was amazing.

 

Best,

 

Wayne

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I just sold my M7 and have purchased an M6 TTL in replacment. I will not bad-mouth the M7, other than to say.......if you do not get one with the MP VF/RF, stand-by for some difficulty in use. When I made the decision to buy just such a camera, i.e. with original M7 VF/RF, I was aware of the various commentary on trouble experienced by others with "flare." I figured, how bad can it be? Well, it was bad. In fact, so bad that whenever I used the camera outdoors, and sometimes even indoors, it was a constant struggle to use the RF patch. It really did kill any enjoyment I might have experienced in using an otherwise very fine camera. My camera may have been an exceptionally bad example, but it really killed the experience. If you want an M7, pay the extra to get the better VF/RF.

 

 

Is there any way to tell by looking at the VF/RF whether it’s the MP one? I probably have the old one but have not had too much trouble with it.

To add my two cents and to second others who have commented on sheer utility vs collectability, I have both the M6, MP and M7. The one that gets picked out of the cabinet far more is the M7. It just works. I wouldn’t hold off buying it out of concern for its longevity relative to the M6 unless you’re thinking in museum time spans. It’s as well built as the M6 and should remain repairable for a long time. I second what’s been said about the usefulness of its AE mode. It exposes accurately and its electro-magnetically triggered shutter is more accurate and over time remains more accurate than a purely mechanical one. I should recount that mine came to me second hand with a working meter but a shutter that would not trigger in “A” mode, making it functionally an M6. I shot with it like that for a year and a half before sending it to Sherry Krauter to replace what turned out to be a bad contact.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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It´s a personal taste I guess so everybody have to decide on his own.

If you go for "street" you should get the M7 because it´s faster a lot of people say

but "really" for me there is no point beliving in that.

The most the time I take pictures in M(anual) Mode I found out and the light dosen´t

change in a fraction of a second while I checked it the last time.

At the moment I use a M3 with a 50lux and a Gossen lightmeter or the app of my smartphone.

 

*Just my 2cents

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I just sold my M7 and have purchased an M6 TTL in replacment. I will not bad-mouth the M7, other than to say.......if you do not get one with the MP VF/RF, stand-by for some difficulty in use. When I made the decision to buy just such a camera, i.e. with original M7 VF/RF, I was aware of the various commentary on trouble experienced by others with "flare." I figured, how bad can it be? Well, it was bad. In fact, so bad that whenever I used the camera outdoors, and sometimes even indoors, it was a constant struggle to use the RF patch. It really did kill any enjoyment I might have experienced in using an otherwise very fine camera. My camera may have been an exceptionally bad example, but it really killed the experience. If you want an M7, pay the extra to get the better VF/RF.

 

No problems, otherwise. The auto-exposure feature is very nice and the metering was amazing.

 

Best,

 

Wayne

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of Leica rangefinder patch flare issue! Yes, I have trouble with this sometimes also - but the patch flare occurs much less severe on my M7 compared to my M6 (non TTL). IMO the main debit of the M6 - if the patch flare occurs, the rectangular patch turns a bit reddish and the focusing doesn't work any longer. It can be "released" by shaking the camera a bit - then everything works as normal again. Problem is that by doing so, I lost some shots because the critical moment passed when I wanted to focus and the patch flare occurred. On my M7 sometimes the patch gets a bit stuck but then quickly releases itself quickly - so pretty much no issue on my M7. Not sure if my M7 has the newer VF/RF, but it certainly works a lot better than on my M6. My M3 on the other hand is best - no issues at all with the VF/RF patch of this older camera. To my knowledge, the issue only started to happen with the M6 when Leica used some cheaper parts in the rangefinder as compared to older camera models. 

Edited by Martin B
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I used an M6 for 30 years and while I noticed the RF flare at times (I also used an M4 since '69 so could see the difference), I found the camera very enjoyable. I had it serviced a few years ago (after it was damaged by a leaking battery), and then heard about two improvements for the finder: the "flare fix" from the MP finder, and the change to the later multicoated finder windows. So I had DAG install both improvements (although he felt the multicoated windows didn't add much). It is now my favorite M finder.

So yes, the original M6 finder has small issues, but it can be greatly improved when the camera needs service.

I expect to get an M10 next month, and I hope its finder will be as good.

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I used an M6 for 30 years and while I noticed the RF flare at times (I also used an M4 since '69 so could see the difference), I found the camera very enjoyable. I had it serviced a few years ago (after it was damaged by a leaking battery), and then heard about two improvements for the finder: the "flare fix" from the MP finder, and the change to the later multicoated finder windows. So I had DAG install both improvements (although he felt the multicoated windows didn't add much). It is now my favorite M finder.

So yes, the original M6 finder has small issues, but it can be greatly improved when the camera needs service.

I expect to get an M10 next month, and I hope its finder will be as good.

 

Yes - only that the "improvement" costs you about $300 to change the RF patch of the M6 which should have been a recall by Leica in the first place IMO. My cost-neutral workaround is taping a polarized foil from 3D glasses cut in the size of the RF patch window and taped with Scotch tape carefully around it. Not perfect, but it reduces the patch flare about 50% from happening in my experience. The viewfinder lines get a bit darker by adding the foil but can be seen still very well. 

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