portocar Posted October 4, 2010 Share #1 Posted October 4, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I know everyone warns against cheap, third party M8 batteries. However, I found this company, Empire Scientific, that sells what looks like a good M8 battery alternative. Take a look at the link below: http://www.empirescientific.com/images/BLI-312.JPG It is not cheap and you can find it for a starting price of about $45.00 dollars. It also comes with a 1 year warranty. Has anyone tried this battery? Is it any better than the cheap Ebay batteries? Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 Hi portocar, Take a look here I think I found a good M8 battery alternative. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pklein Posted October 6, 2010 Share #2 Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) The following is reasonably informed speculation, not based on extensive testing, so take it for what it's worth. There seem to be two problems people report with non-Leica batteries: 1. The battery doesn't last as long "per" charge than the original 2. The batteries fail out of box or after a few charge cycles. #2 is just a matter of industrial QC being what it is. So it makes sense to buy from someone who will quickly give you a replacement if that happens. Now, let's take a closer look at #1. The M8 and M9 take a 3.7 volt battery. The current "cheap eBay batteries" seem to be of two ratings, 1700 mAh and 1900 mAh, and there used to be a 1400 mAH battery available. The "official" Leica battery is either 1800 or 1900 mAh, depending on who you believe. (mAh is Milliampere hours, the amount of charge the battery can hold). It makes sense to get something that equals or exceeds the specs of the original Leica battery, otherwise you won't get as many shots per charge. And if the battery's "discharge curve" is such that the voltage drops more quickly than the original to the point where the camera thinks it's discharged, you may get even less shots than the battery's rating would suggest. I think the above is what has happened to many people who bought 1400 and 1700 mAh batteries from Hong Kong eBay sellers. As we might expect, they didn't last as long per charge on the M8 and M9. But I've only heard good things about the 1900 mAh battery. The 1900 mAh battery has a white label with blue lettering. I've seen what appears to be the same batteries offered by the Hong Kong eBay sellers for anywhere from about $17 to $30. I think Empire Scientific simply imports it. So I decided to order a couple of the 1900 mAH batteries just a couple of days ago (I don't have them yet). Empire Scientific is a wholesaler, you can't buy direct from them. They recommended budgetbatteries.com, so that's where I ordered them. Budget Batteries had them in stock for $52.37. Another supplier I called advertised them for $44.00, but "would have to order them." If you have time to deal with international shipping times and possible returns, it makes sense to buy several batteries from Hong Kong. If one doesn't hold a charge, you're still ahead. I decided to deal with a U.S. supplier, as I'm going on a trip soon, so any long delays in getting a replacement could impact my photography. Several U.S. online dealers stock what appears to be the same 1900 mAh battery, at prices ranging from $44 to $60. Considering that the Leica battery costs 2x-4x those prices, it's still a good deal. If you think the original Leica battery is immune to out-of-box failure, think again. I've heard several reports of Leica batteries failing after a few cycles. All the batteries probably come from the same few factories at some "undisclosed location" in Asia anyway. --Peter Edited October 6, 2010 by pklein 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 7, 2010 Share #3 Posted October 7, 2010 I know everyone warns against cheap, third party M8 batteries. However, I found this company, Empire Scientific, that sells what looks like a good M8 battery alternative. Take a look at the link below: http://www.empirescientific.com/images/BLI-312.JPG It is not cheap and you can find it for a starting price of about $45.00 dollars. It also comes with a 1 year warranty. Has anyone tried this battery? Is it any better than the cheap Ebay batteries? Thanks Is that site a scam. I find NO way to order anything, other then a phone #. Oh they sell to retailers. Not the general public or so it seems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pklein Posted October 7, 2010 Share #4 Posted October 7, 2010 Empire Scientific is a wholesaler. Several online retail sites call the 1900 mAh M8/M9 replacement battery an "Empire battery" or use the same part number as Empire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted October 8, 2010 Share #5 Posted October 8, 2010 I bought half a dozen cheap batteries from Hong Kong ebay- very cheap. I found that some of the batteries show as depleted in the camera when in fact they have just been fully charged. I remedy this by ignoring the cameras warning and firing a few shots or taking the battery out an putting it back in. This often resets the charge indicator somehow. Then they work like normal. They do give unreliable charge readings though. However as back ups: they work- and they last long enough in my experience. so even the really cheap- bad ones- are OK in my experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted October 10, 2010 Share #6 Posted October 10, 2010 My understanding is that the main difference with a Leica OEM battery is that it has a circuit board inside which tells the state of charge to the camera. It is this part that became unavailable that caused the difficulty earlier this year ...a problem that I believe has been resolved. Consequently even if you buy the larger 1900mAh battery which hopefully is superb it is not obvious that you will see the correct readings in the battery level monitor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pklein Posted October 12, 2010 Share #7 Posted October 12, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'll find out soon. My pair of 1900 mAh batteries arrived a couple of days ago. Both took a full charge and are now displaying all 3 LCD segments on the M8's top plate LCD. I'll see how the LCD behaves and post what happens. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 12, 2010 Share #8 Posted October 12, 2010 The problem withLi-Ion batteries is that they do not only have to supply DC to the camera at the correct voltage and with a certain capacity, they have also to respond to the camera asking them, through a serial interface built into the camera-battery connection, what their state of charge is. The battery level is not established by simply measuring the battery voltage even under load but by counting the charge in and out and taking account of things like ageing and temperature. By knowing how much charge the battery has taken on board during charging and how much has since been drained, the percentage of charge remaining can be guessed at. Things can get out of step so that the battery's view of the world is different from reality which is why fully draining the battery can serve to reset the "coulomb counter" to a known state. The danger with compatible batteries is that they may not adhere to the exact serial interface the camera is expecting and the camera may give a false indication - either the battery does not last as long as expected because the camera prematurely thinks it's empty or else the camera suddenly dies because the camera thought the battery was fine where actually the pack is empty. More sophisticated battery setups, such as on Nikon's D3 etc cameras, allow you to condition the battery in this way in the charger and the battery keeps track of not only the current charge cycle but the entire charge history of the pack to allow for ageing more accurately. 10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl101 Posted October 14, 2010 Share #9 Posted October 14, 2010 Considering that the M8/8.2 is such an expensive camera, and that the cost of repair is also 'reassuringly' high, why would I want to buy a 3rd party battery from an unknown manufacturer using cheap generic parts with no known quality control. Cheap Ii-Ion batteries have been known to explode. So a new Leica battery costs £70, and yes I quite agree that this is a hefty price for a battery. But I would not take the risk of inserting a battery of dubious origins into my M8.2 K. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted October 14, 2010 Share #10 Posted October 14, 2010 Cheap Ii-Ion batteries have been known to explode. Expensive ones too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptarmigan Posted October 14, 2010 Share #11 Posted October 14, 2010 Considering that the M8/8.2 is such an expensive camera, and that the cost of repair is also 'reassuringly' high, why would I want to buy a 3rd party battery from an unknown manufacturer using cheap generic parts with no known quality control. Cheap Ii-Ion batteries have been known to explode. So a new Leica battery costs £70, and yes I quite agree that this is a hefty price for a battery. But I would not take the risk of inserting a battery of dubious origins into my M8.2 K. I'm with you on this one, a £2,500 to £4,500 camera could get damaged by a £40 battery, just to save £30 or so. That's crazy. I now have 4 M8 batteries, all genuine. better safe than sorry in my book. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted October 14, 2010 Share #12 Posted October 14, 2010 Expensive ones too! Very true. But the difference is that if it was a genuine Leica battery that exploded, you would most likely have no trouble in getting any needed repairs done for free. I don't think that would be the same if it was a 'generic' cheap battery. I'm pretty sure that Leica would not be too interested in performing a free repair. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pklein Posted October 15, 2010 Share #13 Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) The problem with all this is separating real danger from FUD (*). Real information from the manufacturer is impossible to obtain. They want us to buy their "genuine" Leica batteries, which cost a few dollars to make, at US $170 a pop. So they, like many manufacturers, will put in some vague warning about "stuff we don't make can damage your equipment," or "You need the special Gizmotroid we put in our batteries, lest it give your Summicroid a hemorrhoid." I have never heard of a Leica M8 or M9 being damaged by a third party battery, and I monitor several prominent Leica-oriented forums. The only trouble I've heard of with third-party batteries is the battery not working out-of-box (usually the 1400 mAh "cheapies" from Hong Kong), and the charge indicator showing the battery empty when it still works. The latter can be dealt with by simply using the battery until it's fully drained. Batteries heating up or exploding are usually caused by a direct short, and that would affect any battery, even one with a red dot. If a battery had leaked or exploded, damaging an M8, don't you think we would have heard of it by now, accompanied by a multi-screen flame war of epic proportions? --Peter (*) Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt--one of the primary psychological tools of advertising (and, heaven help us, political campaigns). Edited October 15, 2010 by pklein 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 18, 2010 Share #14 Posted October 18, 2010 The problem with all this is separating real danger from FUD (*). Real information from the manufacturer is impossible to obtain. They want us to buy their "genuine" Leica batteries, which cost a few dollars to make, at US $170 a pop. So they, like many manufacturers, will put in some vague warning about "stuff we don't make can damage your equipment," or "You need the special Gizmotroid we put in our batteries, lest it give your Summicroid a hemorrhoid." I have never heard of a Leica M8 or M9 being damaged by a third party battery, and I monitor several prominent Leica-oriented forums. The only trouble I've heard of with third-party batteries is the battery not working out-of-box (usually the 1400 mAh "cheapies" from Hong Kong), and the charge indicator showing the battery empty when it still works. The latter can be dealt with by simply using the battery until it's fully drained. Batteries heating up or exploding are usually caused by a direct short, and that would affect any battery, even one with a red dot. If a battery had leaked or exploded, damaging an M8, don't you think we would have heard of it by now, accompanied by a multi-screen flame war of epic proportions? --Peter (*) Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt--one of the primary psychological tools of advertising (and, heaven help us, political campaigns). To add to this I have 2 after market batteries that I use every now and then, just to use them, and have never had any problem with them except that I must drain them before recharging so the camera sees they are full. Other then that they give me the same number of shots and function just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 26, 2010 Share #15 Posted October 26, 2010 The problem with all this is separating real danger from FUD (*). Real information from the manufacturer is impossible to obtain. They want us to buy their "genuine" Leica batteries, which cost a few dollars to make, at US $170 a pop. So they, like many manufacturers, will put in some vague warning about "stuff we don't make can damage your equipment," or "You need the special Gizmotroid we put in our batteries, lest it give your Summicroid a hemorrhoid." I have never heard of a Leica M8 or M9 being damaged by a third party battery, and I monitor several prominent Leica-oriented forums. The only trouble I've heard of with third-party batteries is the battery not working out-of-box (usually the 1400 mAh "cheapies" from Hong Kong), and the charge indicator showing the battery empty when it still works. The latter can be dealt with by simply using the battery until it's fully drained. Batteries heating up or exploding are usually caused by a direct short, and that would affect any battery, even one with a red dot. If a battery had leaked or exploded, damaging an M8, don't you think we would have heard of it by now, accompanied by a multi-screen flame war of epic proportions? --Peter (*) Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt--one of the primary psychological tools of advertising (and, heaven help us, political campaigns). Peter, I have posted this before some years ago but I think it is appropriate to post it again here. I bought a rechargeable 2CR5 lithium battery kit, with external charger for an old Canon P&S that had been passed on to my son, where I was fed up with buying my son the quite expensive non-rechargeable 2CR5 batteries. It worked for about 6 cycles and then the battery self destructed inside the camera with lots of smoke. Amazingly, after we had scraped the melted remnants out of the battery compartment and inserted a regular non-rechargeable lithium battery in the camera, it still worked. However, that is not something that is likely to happen with the plastic surround on an M8 or M9 (the Canon's battery compartment was metal lined). I will never take the risk again of buying non-original-manufacturer batteries for any of our cameras. For what you save, the risk just does not add up, although I accept that in the years since this incident, lithium batteries may have become safer. Fake batteries are also an issue. I bought last year on Amazon marketplace, a Sony branded battery for my wife's TG3 video camera. It lasted about half as long as the original battery, even after a number of "forming" charges. It was somewhat cheap in comparison to other sellers. It turned out that Amazon had subsequently received a number of complaints on this seller and arranged a refund for me. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted November 7, 2010 Share #16 Posted November 7, 2010 ...We don't know. As several posts have explained, there is a lot going on inside the battery. I've posted this link before. It is several years old and deals with batteries for Olympus DSLRs. But read through the performance tests and the tear-downs. Unless you know everything that goes into the knock-off battery, you're taking more of a risk than I care to. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Figure Posted August 3, 2017 Share #17 Posted August 3, 2017 I have bought 27 additional ORIGINAL batteries > 20% were holding insufficient charge > some dropping down 6 - 10 images total within months to year. pls read here" https://leicarumors.com/2016/05/31/important-information-about-li-ion-batteries-for-the-leica-m8m8-2m9m9-pm-emonochnrom-cameras.aspx/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnAS Posted August 22, 2017 Share #18 Posted August 22, 2017 I'm bringing my M8 out of retirement - wondering about batteries again. I see lots of batteries in two price ranges, about $20.00 and about $120.00. Comments? I also see "M8" battery chargers for just a few $$ - comments? My M8 charger is one of the original ones, and still works, but is large for travel... Background: Years ago I purchased two "non-leica" M8 batteries that needed to be discharged (totally) before they'd charge and give the proper indication in the little LCD window; not worth the hassle in hindsight. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Figure Posted November 12, 2017 Share #19 Posted November 12, 2017 the 14464 is a mystery to me ... some last forever - especially the ones with Russian writing on them ... some of them are not worth much within short time - newer ones.... go figure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinicio Posted December 2, 2017 Share #20 Posted December 2, 2017 I bought two 14464 batteries in two different Leica store (Vienna and Chicago); both batteries are Leica batteries, not 3rd part but both of these are reporting russian description. My Q camera, new from a Leica dealer, has a battery with small Leica logo on top left corner but the rest of description is in Chinese. So, what to think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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