DMR firmware

[jaapv]

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The R10 is supposed to be a fully integrated full-frame camera.Now the DMR and the M8 are unique niche products, which basically have no competitors. But for Leica to get into the ring and fight the big boys on their own speciality -dSLR's - I doubt they have the resources to pull that one off. The DMR may well be becoming too expensive to produce so it will probaby be phased out.I feel confident that Leica will honour its obligations towards current owners. It would run contrary to everything they stand for not to do so. But the R10 must be something very exotic to survive. I would not surprised if the focus were indeed shifting to dRF products and badge-engineerd camera's.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I'm betting there Not getting out of the R business at all but actually going to make this the high MPX FF monster that some of us want. ME. LOL

 

I think they will jump in the fire pit and provide a real DSLR with focus confirmation and a few other goodies. Intergrated body with a 4 FPS camera that is smaller than the current DMR package but will stil be manual focus with no AA filter and a Kodak sensor that is FF or larger if the lenses can handle it. I do think Imacon has forced there hand to do this sooner than later with a new model though. From all the rumurs of Imacon since the day i bought the DMR they have been nothing but a PITA to deal with. But regardless of what happens next the DMR is still the king out there when it comes to image. For me the DMR has really raised the level of image quality in my work and for that i give it a lot of credit, I certainly hope what ever comes next will equal or exceed that.

[ptomsu]

I am not sure what all this hot air discussions about the business relationship between Leica and Imacon really should mean. We all together have absolutely no glue what is really going on behind the doors of Leica, as mentioned here, all rumors!

 

Having said that, I think we all agree that Leica has not really an option than keeping the R system somehow alife. This can be by

 

1) R10 with 1.3 Crop, but fully integrated - not very likely

2) R10 with FF sensor and fully integrated, but same MF lenses - very likely

3) R10 with FF sensor, fully integrated, but with additional AF support for new R lenses (allowing also the use of MF lenses) - a bit likely, but maybe to progresive for Leica.

 

All other options are actually NO OPTIONS for Leicaf they want to stay serious in the Pro and Semi Pro business, because then they would loos huge amount of credibility.

 

I personally would really love to see an option 2) as soon as possible, best with some 24MP chip and ISO working up till 6400 and 3200 with reasonable results (similar like 5D today).

 

My 5c

 

Peter

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Not sure we will ever see high ISO numbers like that in a CCD sensor , frankly there is none today with a CCD. The M8 is the highest at ISO 2500. That will be a engineering feat to do that at this time.

[jaapv]

Interesting is, that Leica themselves have stated that the R10 will be full frame or larger

Does anybody know what image circle the R lenses actually cover? The shifted microlens technology might help there in eliminating some of the problems Canon is already experiencing on "basic" full frame sensors.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Not sure of the image circle but I would imagine a different format may come into play. I would like it not to be 24 x36mm but more like a 30 x 40mm frame

[ptomsu]

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Not sure of the image circle but I would imagine a different format may come into play. I would like it not to be 24 x36mm but more like a 30 x 40mm frame

 

or better 40 x 40

[ptomsu]

Not sure of the image circle but I would imagine a different format may come into play. I would like it not to be 24 x36mm but more like a 30 x 40mm frame

 

BTW if it is 40 x 30 we would have a new 4/3 system - could be called 4/3 Large ? :-)))

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I think that framing would be better all around and i would suspect that the image circle could possible handle it. Large maybe okay but they may even call it MF it certainly is getting into that area

[ptomsu]

I think that framing would be better all around and i would suspect that the image circle could possible handle it. Large maybe okay but they may even call it MF it certainly is getting into that area

 

right, so this would mean a new MF format and make current MFs somehow obsolete, like H1,2,3 etc.

 

Maybe thsi was another reason why they stopped their approach to Sinar, because they think to develop this in their own rows.

 

Question remaining is if Pros would not require AF from such a system - I cannot answer this. But if ggood working AF is a real must, then we would also need to see a new type of AF based R lenses, which are for MF compatible wit the current lenses.

 

Peter

[sdai]

Look what's on you guys' wishlist ...

 

IMO, a larger than 24x36 sensor in a smaller than R8/R9 package just won't happen ... not to mention a 24MP sensor cranking up to ISO1600/3200. Ok ... Leica could make all this - at what price?

 

Let's be realistic ... I'm looking forward to a 12-13MP 35mm FF digital SLR slightly smaller than the R8/9 ... accepting manual focus lenses only.

 

You know what I'm thinking? if Leica could do it simply based on the current DMR spec. with improved performance in an integrated body BUT - without the surprising features we're seeing in the M8, they can have my money.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Still on debate about Leica making new AF lenses. It would cetainly take major funding and research and also would increase the size and weight of the lens, Focus confirmation is easy to do already with the ROM contacts so they have that already built into the lens. As far as AF for Pro's most of us probably would not use as a function. i don't think Leica should go into this thinking it can go against a sports oriented camera, that market is saturated by Canon and Nikon and not worth financially going after. Now they could add a few lenses that maybe AF functionally so than you have that option and would maybe be 3 zooms and still be able to use the existing R glass with Focus confirmation. To me that makes more sense to develop only a handfull and that can come after release also but the camera has the function built in for it. i would not want to wait for those lenses but give us the body ASAP.

 

Certainly would be a BIG marketing plus for a 30 x40mm sensor that boarders MF with a 4 fps second 15 raw buffer with Focus confirmation and ISO at 1250 that is good. Plus a few other goodies and I would be on it in a NY second also 21mpx. Than my need for MF hassy would drop like a bucket. Right here is the niche market

[jaapv]

Whatever they do it needs to be something nobody else is doing. A simple 1DMkRedDot clone is sure to fail against the Japanese steamroller. As Guy said, they must find their niche market and I have a feeling he is a good target customer for Leica.

A strange thing about the DMR, its supposed advantage and strong selling point is that it is the only analog-digital compatable camera system, yet I never hear of anybody using it that way. I only hear about its pictorial superiority. I suppose anybody interested in shooting film and digital mixed would simply throw a lens-system compatible filmbody in his digital bag.

[wattsy]

After the recent M8 problems, Leica will be very careful before they start throwing €millions at developing a new R10. It would not surprise me if various feasibility studies have concluded that a new R10 is simply not economically viable for such a 'small' company. Maybe a more realistic R digital is a rebadged DSLR from another manufacturer much like in the days Minolta used to make the film SLRs?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Ian from the talk it is already on the drawing board and there working on it but that is what is the talk, so hard to say.

 

Japp i completely agree they need to make this a niche camera or it will fail right out of the gate. if they did something like i said i believe they have a great chance to not only succeed but be a major niche player there. imagine a MF sensor size in 35mm , no one has that at that kind of size. Interesting thing is the DMR that leica thought we could go back and forth between fim and digital. i never ever ran a roll of film through it. leica needs to take a little lesson here give up the film thoughts and build a digital camera. They did this with the M8 also in there controls with regards to the second LCD and wanted to make it more classic. Okay i understand that thought but be done with it now. There not going to survive thinking film any more, sorry to say that to the dieharts but these are the facts in the market. For us older guys we need to grow into the new world of digital , I know our age survey says we are all around the average age of 49 or so. That is a interesting fact and as the older crowd we need to relearn something but the market they need to be hitting harder is the younger up and coming crowd. So coming out with a powerhouse of a sensor in a better package is essential to win some market share

[sdai]

If the Leica's new CEO could scrap a major acquisition deal such as the one with Sinar, they could also scrap a R10 design at its infant stage.

 

Ian's speculation makes perfect sense (to me) ... Leica has to make money first, I highly doubt that Dr. Kauffman would spend his money as some Silicon Valley venture capitalists do.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I thought leica had a huge financial backer with there new ownership now.

[sdai]

Guy, it's not a financial backer ... Dr. Kauffman now owns the company completely. He makes decisions ... not us - I'm not objecting to what you propose, however, I don't see much chance it'll happen.

[ptomsu]

Still on debate about Leica making new AF lenses. It would cetainly take major funding and research and also would increase the size and weight of the lens, Focus confirmation is easy to do already with the ROM contacts so they have that already built into the lens. As far as AF for Pro's most of us probably would not use as a function. i don't think Leica should go into this thinking it can go against a sports oriented camera, that market is saturated by Canon and Nikon and not worth financially going after. Now they could add a few lenses that maybe AF functionally so than you have that option and would maybe be 3 zooms and still be able to use the existing R glass with Focus confirmation. To me that makes more sense to develop only a handfull and that can come after release also but the camera has the function built in for it. i would not want to wait for those lenses but give us the body ASAP.

 

Certainly would be a BIG marketing plus for a 30 x40mm sensor that boarders MF with a 4 fps second 15 raw buffer with Focus confirmation and ISO at 1250 that is good. Plus a few other goodies and I would be on it in a NY second also 21mpx. Than my need for MF hassy would drop like a bucket. Right here is the niche market

 

I agree, a good option for future AF lenses with the same R mount and this would already be seen as really future proof by the potential customers.

 

I alo see that FF with less than 22MP is something which should not be even spent any development Dollar (Euro) in today, because the next generation of high end DSLRs will have 22MP and above - if you need it or not! So if they are developing a new High End system it must offer this resolution from the beginning.

 

With regards to market niche - the option of a "cheaper" medium format DSLR which offers superior images at a lower price than H3 etc. is a good starting point. I am not a pro, but I would spend the mnony for such a camera if it comes in the price range of a Canon 1DSMkxyz. One consideration is for sure that Leica needs to jump on the fast train of renewing their cameras if they want to stay then in business for long term. So just bringing the R10 with all that features in 2 years from now is not enough, it is only the starting point and then they need to be prepared to have a higher end version available every 2 years or so, just like competition. If this is good or bad or necessary or not is not really debatable, it is what the market requires.

 

Peter

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Peter what they can do today is take a existing sensor from Kodak that is made today for the MF for like the 22mg backs and use that. Have to check the sizes but that would eliminate a lot of development and just build the body around that sensor, certainly would come to market faster.

 

I need a sit down with Dr Kaufman. LOL