Future of Film

[earleygallery]

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One might as well say that pens and printed publications are obsolete, as we have computers, mobile phones, and the internet.

 

But people still buy newspapers, even though they all publish on line versions, and people still like to write by hand, even though texting or typing up a note on your ipad is much more efficient.

 

Someone above referred to the old Vinyl v CD chestnut. Actually downloads are taking over from CD's, which will probably become defunct whilst vinyl will continue to have it's core customer base, albeit a niche one.

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[Guest joewehry]

Because film is a more mature medium, I suspect that film photographers are not so driven by technological "advances" as they are by using existing material for their vision, the same way, I suppose, how an artist might use paper and charcoal to create their masterpieces.

 

Personally, I am not so concerned that my camera's shutter is only 1/1000. Most of my favorite pictures were taken at between 1/16 to 1/125 anyway, so I have plenty of room to work with.

 

But rather than argue about the future of film, what about today? Anyone buy some film and take pictures today?

 

I'm trying some E100 and Ektar this weekend. And maybe some TMax 400 when I finish with the color.

 

Happy shooting whatever camera you use

[costakarl]

What has me worried more than the availability of film is the heavier x-ray scanning in airports etc.

 

I travel a lot and cannot always get a hand check.

 

A return trip from home can easily involve the 5 scan limit which is recommended.

 

I used to use kodachrome at 40 din, but my slide work from now on will have to be on faster film.

 

Any way round this problem?

[andybarton]

So long as you keep your film in your hand luggage it's not a problem.

[earleygallery]

I've yet to have, or see, a film affected by airport x rays in hand luggage, even with mulitple x rays.

 

If its still a concern you could have film processed locally, or post it back home.

[Riccis]

What has me worried more than the availability of film is the heavier x-ray scanning in airports etc.

 

I travel a lot and cannot always get a hand check.

 

A return trip from home can easily involve the 5 scan limit which is recommended.

 

I used to use kodachrome at 40 din, but my slide work from now on will have to be on faster film.

 

Any way round this problem?

 

I travel a lot and never had any issues with airport scans (and most are still happy to hand check your film)... As Andy states, it's very safe to scan the film with the rest of your carry on bags.

 

Oh, and film is not going anywhere anytime soon... Just use your tools of choice and don't worry about most of the nonsense you see regurgitated online.

 

Cheers,

[mmk60]

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OP - go for it and enjoy. Life is too short to worry about what is going to happen to the film supply 5 years down the road. Do you buy computers?

 

I shoot w/ both digital (M8) and analog (M3 and M6). I love photos from the M8 but whenever I see photos from films (on the monitor and paper), I get goose bumps

[Allen in Montreal]

I've yet to have, or see, a film affected by airport x rays in hand luggage, even with mulitple x rays.

 

If its still a concern you could have film processed locally, or post it back home.

 

 

I have lost film (or had film damaged by x-ray) in Barcelona, Chicago and Bologna.

In Barcelona, they threaten me with arrest if I spoke another word as they took my zip lock away from me and threw it on the conveyor belt to X-ray after asking for hand inspection. I was polite, soft spoken, and told firmly to be silent or else!

 

In London I asked for hand inspection and was taken aside and granted my request.

The woman asked many questions as she inspected my film, but the 60 odd rolls of film in a ziplock bag was specially tagged and taken away after wards. All the film was fine.

[AlanG]

What rubbish.

 

Film will never be obsolete. It might not suit the way that you work, Alan, but it will not be obsolete. An M3 or M2 isn't obsolete. It still works exactly as it was designed to. Film still works exactly as it was designed to. Enlargers still work exactly as they were designed to.

 

See where I am going with this?

 

Your perception of quality might be completely different from mine.

 

Just because something different has been invented, doesn't mean that what has gone before is obsolete. A pony and trap isn't obsolete in certain circumstances.

 

Obsolescence is a very tricky subject, IMHO. YMMV.

 

A lot of obsolete things still work exactly as they were designed. So what? (Old dental drills, old medical gear, old tape recorders, old WWII fighter aircraft and other military stuff, old computers, etc.)

 

By "functionally obsolete," I mean that very few will be using it because it will be so far behind what the digital systems can do. Not that it will be impossible to shoot on film. And there probably won't be any significant advances in film cameras. Of course if you are happy with what your film camera and film will do and don't think you'll want anything else, then you're set.

 

Check out what Canon is showing for today and some suggestions of where digital imaging is heading in the future. Canon is showing a 50 megapixel multi-band camera, hi res monitors, 202x205mm CMOS sensor, 120 megapixel APS-H sensor, various video cameras and a few futuristic concept cameras, along with medical and other digital equipment. Where are the announcements about new film cameras, film, chemicals, photo paper, darkroom gear and scanners? I think the market has spoken pretty clearly.

 

http://philipbloom.net/2010/09/01/canon-4k-concept-camera-and-first-images-from-canon-expo-on-ny/

 

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e024801ef098

[Joachim123]

A hammer is never obsolete!!

[AlanG]

A hammer is never obsolete!!

 

Are you saying you'll be pounding nails with the M7 in a few years?

 

Seriously, most construction is done with heavy duty powered nailers today. And finish nailers have also taken over from the old finish hammer and nail-set method. I did all the window trim in my house remodel with a finish hammer and nail-set about 5 years ago. When I built a new kitchen last year, I bought an air compressor and finish nail guns. Much easier, faster, and better. (No dents in the trim and very tiny holes to fill.) For fun, just try hand nailing toe kicks and trim under kitchen cabinets. Most drywall is screwed in these days. Yes a hammer is still used for some things.

 

As I said, if you are happy with film and don't think you'll ever need the features that digital cameras can do, then you are set. But the gap between what a digital camera can do and what a film camera can do will continue to widen.

 

If film cameras are not becoming obsolete, why are there so many of them sitting at low low prices on dealer's shelves?

[andybarton]

You are assuming that digital photography is somehow better than film photography in all cases. Many would take issue with that.

 

And to claim that hand tools are obsolete is just ridiculous.

[adan]

You are assuming that digital photography is somehow better than film photography in all cases. Many would take issue with that.

 

And many wouldn't - but so what?

 

Film is not going to survive or die by LUF members placing their hands on their hearts and taking the pledge to never (or only) shoot digital. That's "Clap your hands three times and Tinker Bell will LIVE!" stuff.

 

The future of film is not subject to debate, argumentation, or persuasion - if it were, don't you think Kodak and Fuji would be swamping the airwaves (or cables) with "Use more film!" advertising?

 

It is subject to global market forces - of which, frankly, I don't think anyone here has any significant useful knowledge. Including me(!!)

 

Come Judgement Day or the Heat Death of the Universe, film will certainly disappear. It's certainly going to be available tomorrow. In between those time horizons - well, that's a gray area that depends a whole lot on which film one is talking about, among other things.

 

To the original poster, I would say that, if I had to bet the price of a film camera on film, I'd think 5 years is a sure thing for reasonable availability for most types. And in 50 years it will be a challenge (but not impossible) to find B&W, and color film will be no more (if for no other reason than because the processing infrastructure has collapsed). 10 years - color will be a challenge, B&W fairly easy. 20 years - a complete roll of the dice.

[fotolebrocq]

Many thanks to all that have taken part in this thread - it has been very useful, thought provoking and at times entertaining. I have learnt what I hoped I would learn - that film will probably be around long enough to go for it. Interesting that the M6 gets several votes and with a new MP pushing £3K it may be a better option for me.

 

Thanks again

 

Tony

 

Fotolebrocq

[Bateleur]

To answer the original poster...

 

Frankly I'm optimistic about the future of film. And thoroughly committed to analogue, and black and white photography for many reasons.

 

My familiar emulsions are still available and from time to time I have the diversity available to experiment with one of the new exotic emulsions. Chemistry has become more expensive of late and sometimes my local dealer is out of stock of my favourite brew. I have adjusted and make sure I keep a reserve. Paper is still available in a reasonable diversity, although I'm sad at the departure of Agfa from the marketplace.

 

In the short term I think the diversity may thin a little and the prices will certainly rise, but I do not expect much change. Over the longer term I expect the same trend, however am confident that film will outlive me.

 

Regards

Charles

[JBA]

Kodachrome will be no more at the end of 2010. This much we know for sure about the end of film. Other than that, rumors of its death have been greatly exaggerated.

 

I'll put in a plug for the MP. I liked it so much I got 3.

[plasticman]

Full frame cameras have advanced in various ways since the 11 megapixel 1Ds in 2003. I don't think anything about film cameras, film technology, film processing, and scanning has improved significantly in those 7 years. Over the next 7 years, digital sensors, digital cameras, firmware, and software will continue to improve while film, film cameras, and scanners will not improve much, if at all. (For instance, the top shutter speed on an M7 is 1/1000 and is 1/4000 on an M9.)

 

So when it comes to versatility, capability, and overall quality, film will be functionally obsolete in a few more years (it is already for many)... whether some people will prefer using it and the look of it, is another matter.

 

Can't there be a 'YAWN!' button in addition to the the 'Thanks' and 'Quote' buttons under each post. Sometimes just pressing that button would save me so much time. Mods?

[jaapv]

I've yet to have, or see, a film affected by airport x rays in hand luggage, even with mulitple x rays.

 

If its still a concern you could have film processed locally, or post it back home.

Posting home is not a good idea. Mail sometimes gets pretty strong x-ray checks.

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[zipper]

A lot of obsolete things still work exactly as they were designed. So what? (Old dental drills, old medical gear, old tape recorders, old WWII fighter aircraft and other military stuff, old computers, etc.)

 

By "functionally obsolete," I mean that very few will be using it because it will be so far behind what the digital systems can do. Not that it will be impossible to shoot on film. And there probably won't be any significant advances in film cameras. Of course if you are happy with what your film camera and film will do and don't think you'll want anything else, then you're set.

 

Check out what Canon is showing for today and some suggestions of where digital imaging is heading in the future. Canon is showing a 50 megapixel multi-band camera, hi res monitors, 202x205mm CMOS sensor, 120 megapixel APS-H sensor, various video cameras and a few futuristic concept cameras, along with medical and other digital equipment. Where are the announcements about new film cameras, film, chemicals, photo paper, darkroom gear and scanners? I think the market has spoken pretty clearly.

 

Canon 4k concept camera and first images from Canon Expo in NY | Philip Bloom

 

Canon U.S.A. : About Canon

 

are we reaching a level where there is little point in increasing the resolution of the sensors except for scientific sensing or special commercial/creative purposes. Same happened with music CD, the sampling rate isn't perfect, but it is good enough.

[andybarton]

I am going to "agree to disagree" with several posters in this thread