New M8: magenta highlights=magenta cast??

[Jamie Roberts]

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I stand by my original statement.

 

I really don't think this has anything to with IR. I will test with the 24 Elmarit, since I now have a 486 filter, but I suspect I won't be able to get anything like the original shot.

 

I certainly DO NOT see anything like this with any of the lenses (even the CV 15) I have on the UNfiltered M8 I've been using.

 

Anyway, testing aside, this doesn't look like CA or IR bleed. It looks like something called bi-refringeance (forgive the spelling), and that takes place in the interplay of lens and sensor.

 

For example, on the Canon 5d / 1ds2, if you open up the Canon 85 1.2L and shoot high contrast images, you will often find purple and green fringing around areas of high contrast. I even have a photoshop action to remove this for the Canons! Interestingly enough, when pressed, Canon says this is the sensor

 

But if I then put my Leica 80 R on the 5d or 1ds2 and shoot the same stuff--guess what? No fringing! See? So it's the glass and the sensor.

 

All of Canon's fast glass does this, with the possible exception of the 135 2.0L.

 

But it's evidently not IR related.

 

I suspect the lack of coatings on the lens, coupled with its resolution in the shot, and the very high exposure, effectively created this problem. Does the sensor have something to do with it? Yes... but it has nothing to do with IR, I don't think.

 

Anyway, I'll test with an Elmarit and let you know

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[Iron Flatline]

Btw, lens used was an Elmarit 28mm f/2.8 ASPH w. 6-bit

[Jamie Roberts]

I'm having a "red" issue as well.

{snipped}

I have a lot of experience with digital photography. I've not seen this before. To add to the speculation - might the white balance be skewing?

{snipped}

 

These cameras are very sensitive to WB, and the in-camera WB is a bit skewed for sure. So how were you white balancing?

 

FWIW, the shot as posted doesn't look too bad--I don't see blotchy skin at all--just the shift effects of the profile in shadow (moves to magenta). How is your monitor calibrated / profiled?

 

The original C1 M8 profile is pretty horrible, BTW--and skewed to over-saturation. If you have C1 Pro, quickly try changing to Phase P25 profiles--especially the skin tone profiles--and see what you think.

 

If you don't, download and install the M8 profiles I posted in the sticky in this forum and try those. I think you'll see an immediate skin tone improvement (but you still need to nail WB and make sure your monitor isn't the problem).

[Iron Flatline]

Thanks, will do.

 

I actually calibrated both my monitors and my laptop when I saw this, to make sure it's right. Looking at it now in grey NY (rather than sunny LA) it seems less red, too...

 

Nonetheless, I will grab your profiles. Thanks for making them available.

[Iron Flatline]

Oh, and I was using auto WB. I was just firing away while waiting for my salad, trying the saturation settings when shooting JPGs.

[woodda]

The 40/1.4 SC was specifically designed for B/W film photography ... the lack of multi-coating is very likely the cause of the issues here. I'd suggest you try to correct it with Camera Raw.

 

I had the same problem back at first release. I thought this what they fixed inaddition to black comimg out as purple. Please attached link the drinepipe on right should be black and te top window frames or not white

 

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[KevinA]

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I'm having a "red" issue as well.

 

The image below is just the DNG resized and saved as JPG. It looks the same whether I use Adobe Raw or Capture One.

 

Note the red blotchiness of the skin, and the hands especially. My wife spends more on skin care per month than I do on Leica gear in a year , so I can guarantee you that's not what her skin looks like.

 

 

Other images are showing a lot of red, too.

 

I have a lot of experience with digital photography. I've not seen this before. To add to the speculation - might the white balance be skewing?

 

My firmware is 1.09

Does not the IR issue produce blotchy skin? I take it you didn't use a IR filter.

 

Kevin.

[lct]

...might the white balance be skewing?...

Either the man's shirt was light blue or there is some blue cast in your image IMHO.

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[Iron Flatline]

Correct, I did not use an IR filter. Would that resolve this issue for me?

 

Also, how do I get one? I got the camera, but then promptly had to run off for five weeks (with camera). I remember there was a pamphlet - should my retailer have given me one, or should Leica send one to me. How does it work?

 

Is the Leica filter the way to go, or is there a 3rd party manufacturer that has a better solution?

[Iron Flatline]

ICT, your adjustment certainly shows me that I had a blue cast. Somehow the WB must have gotten fooled. I didn't strip EXIF, so it should show that I had it set to Auto... hmmm....

 

I'll keep experimenting, and will report back once I know more.

[Jamie Roberts]

I had the same problem back at first release. I thought this what they fixed inaddition to black comimg out as purple. Please attached link the drinepipe on right should be black and te top window frames or not white

 

Wood Family Website - powered by smugmug

 

Darrel--what lens did you use for this, and how did you process it?

[woodda]

21 f2.8

 

Regards

[woodda]

Oops missed off an answer to your second question:

processed simply through Iview Media pro auto converter

[jaapv]

ICT, your adjustment certainly shows me that I had a blue cast. Somehow the WB must have gotten fooled. I didn't strip EXIF, so it should show that I had it set to Auto... hmmm....

 

I'll keep experimenting, and will report back once I know more.

I don't know of any digital camera that does not need careful colour balancing in post-processing. Out of camera, imho, is wrong in 90 % of cases.

[KevinA]

Either the man's shirt was light blue or there is some blue cast in your image IMHO.

Does it sound better like this?

 

The simple solution is always best, that cured it. A simple white balance click.

 

Kevin.

[jonoslack]

All of us using the M8 withour IR filtering, (when will they come?), have exactly the same problem regardless of the lens. It's the IR sensitivity problem. Nearly all foliage strongly reflects IR and virtually every picture I take which includes foliage has this problem to some degree somewhere in the image. As the car salespersons say - "It's a feature of this model, Sir".

 

Hi Peter

I quite disagree - I have literally thousands of pictures with the M8 and foliage, and unless you overexpose them there is no need for this type of magenta fringing (and that's without a filter).

[Jamie Roberts]

Oops missed off an answer to your second question:

processed simply through Iview Media pro auto converter

 

Hmm. That could be your problem right there. Different RAW converters handle highlights--especially extreme highlights as you have in your shot, in different ways. Some don't handle them at all, and while I can't speal to IView Media Pro particularly, I'd suggest you try a different converter for this particular problem!

[woodda]

Thanks. Was a little surpised as I have uses other digitals and never had this problem.

 

I will try another manufacturer with the same subject and compare

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[Guest WPalank]

Mr. Flatline,

From your original image there are 3 hot spots on the images behind and above your lovely wife (on the upper edge of the image). Do you remember if there were small spot lights on the art work in the cafe/bistro? Or is this a separate issue? Cheers!

[Peter Branch]

Hi Peter

I quite disagree - I have literally thousands of pictures with the M8 and foliage, and unless you overexpose them there is no need for this type of magenta fringing (and that's without a filter).

 

If you don't over expose them then, without an IR filter, the foliage has a brown muddy apperance due to the IR sensitivity and the very well known high IR reflectivity of foliage. You can "correct" it, of course, but if you do then other parts of the picture suffer in some way and to some degree. In the example the parts of the image in question were massively over exposed - spectural highlights nearly always occur with foliage. That is why you have to be particularly careful about metering if there is foliage in the image. The number of shots of grass I have seen which were severely underexposed because the camera "sees" the spectural light but the eye tends to compensate and not "see" it.

 

IR is insideous and, in my opinion, its effect on M8 images has recently been down played because the solution has been identified. Very many images which are perfectly "acceptable" in fact show evidence of IR contamination somewhere in the frame.

 

What precise mechanism is involved is not clear to me. Of course the IR image will not be focused and the sensor/software combination may do any number of things but I am seeing this too often and it is always associated with conditions that have strong connections with IR. The flesh tone problem with high IR sensitivity is very well known and firms like Kodak and Fuji issue specific warnings about it for their films with high IR sensitivity and also recommend filters to prevent the problem.