M2 or M4 (or M6)?

[bocaburger]

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I never understood the angst regarding dead batteries. Replace the battery on a regular basis, say every 6 months, and you'll never experience a dead battery. If you are shooting 20 rolls a day, maybe replace it every month. Six batteries are about the size of one roll of film.

 

I'm partial to the M7 over my M2 and M6. I love the semi-spot metering pattern on the M6 & M7. It is far superior to the ill-defined elliptical blob on the M8 & M9.

 

+1 about the batteries. I always wonder, how do the people who anguish over a battery-powered camera manage with cellphones, ipods, laptops and all the other ubiquitous devices of the modern world, including automobiles...or do they refuse to use all those also?

 

As to your comment re the metering pattern, do you own an M8 or M9? I do, and used M6, M6TTL, M7 and MP previously, with slide film, and don't find the M8 metering in any way inferior. The M6 etc meter BTW is also something of a center-weighted, albeit the pattern is more circular than elliptical. The sensitivity is not the same across the entire pattern, it's stronger in the center and fades out. Don't let the painted white spot fool you, it doesn't define the metering area sharply. The M5, in which the meter cell itself receives a direct reading in the light path, is a true semi-spot.

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[Doug A]

Thank you all for the replies. I was encouraged to see that nobody had anything seriously bad to say about the M2, M4 or M6. It sounds like any one of them in good condition from a relable source would be a good choice.

 

And thanks to octo and famz for mentioning the MP. I looked at it on the Leica web site and read some of the "I Love My MP" thread here. Very impressive. I would have to sell one of my motorcycles to buy one, but I have to admit I am thinking about it now.

 

Incidentally, I raised the dead battery issue almost as a reflex. My 50-year-old motorcycles will get me home with a dead battery and my button accordions have no batteries at all. The idea of a camera that works with a dead bettery or no battery appeals to me. I am not opposed to electronics in general. I worked in telecom for 35 years. And I will be scanning the negatives from whatever Leica I buy and printing them on an inkjet printer.

[caugustin]

I would second those advising an M6 (non-TTL) or MP. It's nice to have build-in metering (and M6 metering is the best I ever had with a camera, whatever brand or system ever, far more predictable than matrix and all the like; MP should be the same), and batteries last nearly forever (I have a spare one of this tiny batteries with the camera all the time, so never had a problem).

 

Why not TTL or M7? Because M6 and MP have the more elegant, lower body of the "old" Ms. Only some millimeters, but for me this counts; when I first saw the M6 TTL I was disappointed (as I'm with the M8 in this regard). All a matter of personal preference.

 

The M6 RF is not as bad as told. And there's a trick to get rid of the occasional flare without upgrading the RF (I can't find the reference, but someone told somewhere on the Leica User Forum, just taping the center of the middle front window).

[FiZZ]

I find the M2/M4 have the best bodies. I love the clean lines of the windows and the lack of writing on the front.

 

You mentioned you wanted 35mm frame lines. I want to mention something about the M2, not sure if it applies to the M4. The 35mm frame lines are incredibly hard to see if you wear glasses. I have to press mine on to my face and even then I can barely get them all in the viewfinder when I wear my glasses. In fact, my right lens is all scratched up from having the camera planted so close to the glasses. I suggest a camera with 28/35mm frame lines. As far as I know, someone correct me please if I'm wrong, M6/7/8 cameras come with different magnifications for the range finder. The M6 has a 0.58 magnification which is perfect for 35mm if you wear glasses. Not too sure about the M4 in that particular matter.

 

I am more than happy with my M2 and I prefer it over the other M's. There is something magic about a fully mechanical camera that just works.

[bill]

I want to mention something about the M2, not sure if it applies to the M4. The 35mm frame lines are incredibly hard to see if you wear glasses. I have to press mine on to my face and even then I can barely get them all in the viewfinder when I wear my glasses. In fact, my right lens is all scratched up from having the camera planted so close to the glasses.

 

This is a personal, not a general thing. I wear spectacles and am a left-eyed shooter and have absolutely no problem at all with the 35mm framelines in the M2 viewfinder. YMMV.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[bill]

I suggest a camera with 28/35mm frame lines. As far as I know, someone correct me please if I'm wrong, M6/7/8 cameras come with different magnifications for the range finder. The M6 has a 0.58 magnification which is perfect for 35mm if you wear glasses. Not too sure about the M4 in that particular matter.

 

Sorry, just read the second point here. Not sure I understand the suggestion? Framelines are paired - 28-90 and 35-135. The M6, M7 and MP are available in .58, .72 and .85 variants. I have the .85 M7 and again, find the 35mm framelines completely usable. .85 does not have 28mm framelines, but you can use the whole finder area at a pinch.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[andybarton]

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Left eye, spectacle-wearing M2 user here.

 

I do find it difficult sometimes to see the 35 frame line, but they are so close to being whole frame anyway, that I stopped worrying about it long ago.

 

I get a scratched left lens on my glasses if I use the M2 extensively, as the viewfinder ring is metal. A blank dioptre adjustment ring solves the problem, as they have a hard rubber outer surface.

[normclarke]

M2 or M4 for me, less to go wrong and more accurate frame lines. I worked for fifty years on electronic devices and have a healthy disregard for the beasts!

 

Best,

 

normclarke

[FiZZ]

Sorry, just read the second point here. Not sure I understand the suggestion? Framelines are paired - 28-90 and 35-135. The M6, M7 and MP are available in .58, .72 and .85 variants. I have the .85 M7 and again, find the 35mm framelines completely usable. .85 does not have 28mm framelines, but you can use the whole finder area at a pinch.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

It wasn't really a suggestion as more of a heads-up. The problem can be remedied easily, I just thought it should be mentioned. I think the M2 magnification is a 0.72.

[Doug A]

M2 or M4 for me, less to go wrong and more accurate frame lines. I worked for fifty years on electronic devices and have a healthy disregard for the beasts!

For me, the main issue with the built-in meter is that it's too easy to use. Using a hand held meter makes me slow down and think a little more about what I am doing. And I'd like to think that it results in better photos.

[caugustin]

To carry an additional item is cumbersome, and with fast changing light (i.e. fast moving clouds) a build-in meter is much faster. Okay, only relevant with slide film or some BW materials, not with color negative and C41 based BW films – for those no need for a light meter (just use the hints on the package ).

[Doug A]

To carry an additional item is cumbersome, and with fast changing light (i.e. fast moving clouds) a build-in meter is much faster. Okay, only relevant with slide film or some BW materials, not with color negative and C41 based BW films – for those no need for a light meter (just use the hints on the package ).

Changing light is an excellent example. When my wife and I photograph our grandchildren in the park and they run from the sun into the shade her point-and-shoot digital camera adjusts instantly and I can usually tweak the image well enough with iPhoto to get an OK result. But I am shooting Tri-X. When they run into the shade the overall contrast of the scene changes drastically. When they are in the sun and backlit I either use the incident light reading I took when I began shooting or I measure direct with the Digisix and open the lens by one or even two stops depending on how much I want to see the background washed out. When they are in the shade I use a direct reading with no adjustment.

 

In theory I could use a camera with a built-in meter and just ignore it. The M6 has fully manual exposure control and the little display at the bottom for the meter is unobtrusive. I could even take the battery out But knowing myself, I wonder how long it would be before I found myself using what everyone says is an excellent built-in meter and losing a part of the control I have now.

 

Lots to think about...

[FiZZ]

Changing light is an excellent example. When my wife and I photograph our grandchildren in the park and they run from the sun into the shade her point-and-shoot digital camera adjusts instantly and I can usually tweak the image well enough with iPhoto to get an OK result. But I am shooting Tri-X. When they run into the shade the overall contrast of the scene changes drastically. When they are in the sun and backlit I either use the incident light reading I took when I began shooting or I measure direct with the Digisix and open the lens by one or even two stops depending on how much I want to see the background washed out. When they are in the shade I use a direct reading with no adjustment.

 

In theory I could use a camera with a built-in meter and just ignore it. The M6 has fully manual exposure control and the little display at the bottom for the meter is unobtrusive. I could even take the battery out But knowing myself, I wonder how long it would be before I found myself using what everyone says is an excellent built-in meter and losing a part of the control I have now.

 

Lots to think about...

 

But you're shooting outdoors. I agree that you need a meter indoors because it sometimes gets tricky.

 

Personally I use Sunny 16 when I'm outdoors and I compensate depending on what shutter speed/aperture I need. I picked up that in shade I need to increase exposure by 2-4 clicks depending on how "dark" the shade is. And it worked fine so far.

 

Plus you're using Tri-X. Tri-X is the most forgiving film on the planet! I've seen shots where the photographer over exposes by FOUR STOPS and STILL gets details in the shot. And this in Lightroom. Sure, underexposing isn't the same as you don't capture the detail, but you can always go over and darken after.

 

I found using an external meter to be much better than that built in meter. The only time I use a metered camera is when I'm shooting indoors or in low light where I need the light source and I'm too far to use my incident meter so I use the TTL.

 

Either way, best of luck to the OP making a choice! All three are great cameras, though I'm more of an old school Leica kind of guy.

 

Maybe someone can shed more light on this, but I read somewhere that The pre-M5 Leicas were the best made Leicas in terms of quality, and it wasn't until the MP that Leica returned to that quality of finish in their cameras. Can someone comment on this?

[thomasw_]

The whole conundrum is dissolved when you realize one essential fact: the M2 rocks. It is quite simple, for it just rocks.

[Doug A]

A quick update: This morning FedEx delivered an M2 body and an f2.5 35mm Color-Skopar MC. A quick check of the shutter and rangefinder showed nothing amiss. First reactions: The silky smooth feel and quiet shutter are impressive and, after years of using a IIIf, the viewfinder is a revelation. Tomorrow morning my wife and I leave for a week of camping in the Catskills. I am taking the M2 w/ 35mm lens, a Digisix meter and half a dozen rolls of BW400CN. (She is taking her p&s digital.) Photos of the M2 and by the M2 to follow.

[Doug A]

Here is my "new" M2, shot with my wife's digital Sony (sorry). I'll start a new thread with some initial observations after I've taken a few more photos with it. So far I like it a lot.

 

--Doug

 

[Penzes]

Congratulation, nice piece, so far I can see!

[Doug A]

Congratulation, nice piece, so far I can see!

 

It has some scratches on the top, but the viewfinder and rangefinder are clear, the shutter speeds seem OK based on one roll of BW400CN I had developed, and the Vulcanite is completely intact.

 

--Doug

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[earleygallery]

Identical set to mine, I'm sure you'll be very pleased with it. Don't forget to reset the film counter when you load a new film!

[stunsworth]

Don't forget to reset the film counter when you load a new film!

 

If you only shoot 36 exposures on a film you may find it resets itself when you load the next film <grin>.