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New Band is Firmware Bug

sean_reid

By sean_reid
in Digital Forum

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sean_reid

sean_reid

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Hi All,

 

I'll look for the thread when I get more time but over the past week, Furrukh, Rex and others had been discussing a strange band that can appear in M8 files when a light source is outside the frame. I had contacted Leica about this and today heard back that Leica has identified the problem as one related to the firmware. That also means it can be fixed in firmware and the fix will be included in version 1.10.

 

I've been out of touch with the forum, mostly, over the past week and so will take a look to see if there's any more info. that I should pass on to Leica.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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scott kirkpatrick

scott kirkpatrick

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That's good news, as the smears looked pretty bad and had the half-frame characteristic of the earlier bleeding problem.

 

Has Leica looked into the vertical line at .58 of the way across the frame? This is a piece of weak structure in the background noise. It shows up in dark areas of available light shots. Most cameras show it, at least when torture tested by making an exposure with the lens cap on, and then pushing the result several stops in a raw converter. The location of the vertical line is the same in each camera in which it has been found.

 

scott

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mr_big

mr_big

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Has Leica looked into the vertical line at .58 of the way across the frame? This is a piece of weak structure in the background noise. It shows up in dark areas of available light shots. Most cameras show it, at least when torture tested by making an exposure with the lens cap on, and then pushing the result several stops in a raw converter. The location of the vertical line is the same in each camera in which it has been found.

 

scott

 

Yeah, that's the one that bugs me the most.

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larry

larry

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Hi Sean,

 

This thread could easily turn into a laundry list of M8 firmware bugs. ;-)

 

I've had a couple of quirky, but relatively minor things happen:

When switching between JPEG and DNG, the frame counter won't reset to the proper number of remaining frames until the camera has been switched off for a few minutes.

 

After I entered and saved user profiles, and then selected one (for outdoor shooting), the viewfinder display indicated a very long exposure although I was shooting in bright daylight. I went ahead and shot, and the exposure was fine. This display problem persisted until I turned off the camera and then back on.

 

Certainly not big issues, but worth investigating when debugging the code. Despite this, the M8 is still tops in my book. Thanks for passing this information along to Leica.

 

Larry

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skimmel

skimmel

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Thanks Sean, that is great news and thanks for passing along the information.

 

One thing that came up over the past week is the pricing of the discount lenses outside of EU prices for those who purchased M8s by the end of Dec. I realize that this is not a technical issue, but have you heard anything on this?

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sean_reid

sean_reid

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Unofficially, I think that the vertical line may be a firmware fix as well but I'll try to discuss it with Leica tomorrow. I'll publish something more official about these fixes once I'm sure that I have all the information I need. To be honest, I need to look over all my notes, etc. again to recall what is/was going on with the M8 with respect to banding, etc. I sent them the info. I had before I left on holiday vacation and need to recall what was going on.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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sean_reid

sean_reid

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Hi Sean,

 

This thread could easily turn into a laundry list of M8 firmware bugs. ;-)

 

I've had a couple of quirky, but relatively minor things happen:

When switching between JPEG and DNG, the frame counter won't reset to the proper number of remaining frames until the camera has been switched off for a few minutes.

 

After I entered and saved user profiles, and then selected one (for outdoor shooting), the viewfinder display indicated a very long exposure although I was shooting in bright daylight. I went ahead and shot, and the exposure was fine. This display problem persisted until I turned off the camera and then back on.

 

Certainly not big issues, but worth investigating when debugging the code. Despite this, the M8 is still tops in my book. Thanks for passing this information along to Leica.

 

Larry

 

Hi Larry,

 

I'll add those to my notes for an e-mail and phone call to Leica tomorrow. I'm holding off on Part Five of my M8 review until I get as full a sense as possible of what M8 bugs are left, how they are being addressed by Leica, etc.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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sean_reid

sean_reid

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Thanks Sean, that is great news and thanks for passing along the information.

 

One thing that came up over the past week is the pricing of the discount lenses outside of EU prices for those who purchased M8s by the end of Dec. I realize that this is not a technical issue, but have you heard anything on this?

 

Hi,

 

Sorry but I have no idea. I suspect that kind of information is going to come directly to M8 owners from Leica.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Guest guy_mancuso

Guest guy_mancuso

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That's good news, as the smears looked pretty bad and had the half-frame characteristic of the earlier bleeding problem.

 

Has Leica looked into the vertical line at .58 of the way across the frame? This is a piece of weak structure in the background noise. It shows up in dark areas of available light shots. Most cameras show it, at least when torture tested by making an exposure with the lens cap on, and then pushing the result several stops in a raw converter. The location of the vertical line is the same in each camera in which it has been found.

 

scott

 

 

I was with a leica rep last week and discussed this issue. My guess it is the two processing channels for the sensor that one is running slower than the other and the reason for the overlap, my comment went directly to leica in Solms to look for this and my opinion it is certainly firmware only.

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wilfredo

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Hi Sean:

 

I've gotten a couple of over-exposed shots while using the camera on Auto in the first 150 shots. I'm hoping this too will be a firmware update fix. Others have already shared problems with the white balance, I've had some of those myself. I've also gotten some of those red edges from reflected sunlight. Thanks for keeping us posted.

 

Wilfredo+

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sean_reid

sean_reid

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Just hope they can make the 1.10 FW update available before "sometime in february"...

 

Thanks for the info Sean...

 

You're welcome. Its better, I think, that they take the time to get this right. We all know that they should have already gotten it right by now but they haven't quite done that yet so those of us who like the camera and want to use it will just have to keep giving them constructive feedback. They're certainly making excellent progress and they are not ignoring customer concerns and feedback. I do think, longer term, that as they gain more experience with digital cameras, these kinds of bugs, etc. will be less common in future models.

 

I also think they're getting very close to a camera that fully functions as it should. And, of course, they aren't the only digital camera manufacturers who've struggled with new model problems.

 

Meanwhile this remains my favorite digital camera and the enthusiasm I expressed for it in my initial review still stands.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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rvaubel

rvaubel

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That's good news, as the smears looked pretty bad and had the half-frame characteristic of the earlier bleeding problem.

 

Has Leica looked into the vertical line at .58 of the way across the frame? This is a piece of weak structure in the background noise. It shows up in dark areas of available light shots. Most cameras show it, at least when torture tested by making an exposure with the lens cap on, and then pushing the result several stops in a raw converter. The location of the vertical line is the same in each camera in which it has been found.

 

scott

 

Sean

 

I have a whole collection of the various "bug" frames, if you want them. I've included a couple of the vertical line torture test frames for your amusement ;) The traffic scene has an example of 'reflections of the back of the filter' . In other words, those are not green blobs. That's flare from the filter :mad: This happens, to some extent, whether the filter is anti-reflection coated or not

 

I do agree that the remaining problems are things that come up so infrequently as to be of no real practical significants. If you accept the fact that filters are required, about the only thing to deal with is the cyan vignetting issue.

 

Rex

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Guest guy_mancuso

Guest guy_mancuso

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Exactly Rex they pretty much know of all the issues that we have come across and i talked to them about that last week with the leica reps. They are working on all of those including that last green half blob of whatever. The real issues after they get these fixed is the cyan cast and that was said that was in the next firmware upgrade. Also waiting on profiles. I know Brian has the files needed from Ray and also Chuck so there may be something soon for raw Developer. What we really should be doing as a group is getting in C1 ears about new profiles with the IR cut filters. I am hoping leica can get the firmware sooner than Feb. but that is a wish on my part.

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ho_co

ho_co

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When originally announced, the M8 when used with coded lenses was to calculate the taking aperture within +/-1 stop and place that information in the EXIF data.

 

Is this still a planned feature, or has its introduction been suspended?

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rosuna

rosuna

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I agree the DMR situation is very poor, hardly inspires confidence in the future of the R.

 

Well, I suppose the DMR's firmware depends on Imacon/Hasselblad. The M8 firmware depends on Jenoptik. The recent problems related to the Sinar operation is that worries me.

 

Phase One hasn't the scale to be a partner for Leica in the complete development *and manufacture* of digital products. However, Leica needs some digital know-how for "in house" development, testing, etc. This explains the Sinar buy, and this makes me even more worried.

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