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lagrassa

Does the M8 need to use IR Filter?

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i have had my camera for over a month...and have never encountered any magenta tints.....i shoot 75% of the time in B&W......but i have no plans to put an IR/UV filter in.....i see no need.

 

i will try to recreate the tint......just to see if it even happens! i'm sure it does if you have all seen it.

 

It DOES happen and with certain fabrics it's really annoying not to have the filter (is also difficult to correct, in certain situations / patterns)

In these two examples is easy to guess which one is made without filter...

(both taken with Summarit 75);

Edited by luigi bertolotti

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Suffice it to desaturate magentas in pictures like Luigi's above but it is not only magentas but also reds which can be enhanced by the lack of IR-cut filter. In the left pic below (w/o filter) there is way too much red on the robe and the second bag on the left, both of them being totally black as shown in the filtered pic on the right.

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It makes a big difference under many circumstances. Shooting outdoors for "greens", and for black colored clothing.

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Suffice it to desaturate magentas in pictures like Luigi's above but it is not only magentas but also reds which can be enhanced by the lack of IR-cut filter. In the left pic below (w/o filter) there is way too much red on the robe and the second bag on the left, both of them being totally black as shown in the filtered pic on the right.

 

interesting...thanks for the comparison. i honestly have never noticed it......or perhaps i just haven't photographed that kind of black fabric to make it noticeable....although i KNEW that this was a documented issue with these cameras.

 

BTW, i have that same Leitz bag! love it!

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It is not a matter of black fabrics alone. Just shoot in tungsten mode and IR-cut filters will become your best friends.

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Purple blacks are easy to deal with, make a selection based on color and desaturate. Easy except for wedding photogs when there are hundreds to repair.

 

Tungsten light is a problem, sunlight is a problem , as many colors are wrong and the fix is much post processing and difficult to get right. Greens have the wrong hue and saturation.

 

Ok so now add the filters and you get magenta corners on lenses 35 mm and shorter. 35 just a bit. To have the camera fix it, the lens needs to be coded as there is no manual selection like the M9 has. Or you run all the photos through corner fix after you make profiles for each lens + f stop combination.

 

I switch between M8 and M9 and just leave the filters on.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tobey bilek

...I switch between M8 and M9 and just leave the filters on.

How do you avoid color shifts this way with wides?

I do the same and find it actually helps with the M9 in two ways. First, it takes out that last portion of IR that the cover glass doesn't, and secondly it counteracts the slight pink corners resulting from the M9's overcorrection with some coded wider lenses. The wider the lenses, the more the filter affects the corners, so with longer lenses the filters have less effect on the corners anyway. Leaving the IR cut filters on with the M9 may not be ideal with all lenses, but it has been working well for me...

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Well, not that I've seen; in effect it just seems to have evened that out. I haven't used lenses wider than 28mm on the M9, so my experience is limited.

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the filter is required if you shoot object in black color. without filter the black change to magenta.

 

 

Just to reiterate, I came to this conclusion the hard way. Andy speaks the truth here.

 

Michael,

 

I hope this thread has not gotten too convoluted for you.

 

As already stated you will need the UV/IR filter if you are shooting color.

 

I've always kept one on all my M8 lenses.

 

If you don't use the filter some blacks like the band on the young lady's hat, won't appear black. This is almost always the case with most black fabrics.

 

SO YES, YOU WILL NEED IT, and please don't let that be a deterrent, the M8 IQ is fantastic and unique.

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the filter is required if you shoot object in black color. without filter the black change to magenta.

 

That depends on the fabric. If it is polyester then yes, it will turn magenta, if it is made from natural fibres like pure cotton it does not have to. Another thing is the green in grass and leaves (anything that reflects high amounts of IR) that turns drab without an UV/IR or 486 filter.

 

Carl

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(...) Another thing is the green in grass and leaves

 

not to speak of hot things, such as the sausage on the grill.

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Yes, and skin tones. Restaurant interiors are often full of IR, with incandescent lighting, candles, hot food, perhaps heat-lamps on self-serve items... The IR contaminates the colors so that they cannot be made right in post.

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what is the sample object with high amount of IR?

 

That depends on the fabric. If it is polyester then yes, it will turn magenta, if it is made from natural fibres like pure cotton it does not have to. Another thing is the green in grass and leaves (anything that reflects high amounts of IR) that turns drab without an UV/IR or 486 filter.

 

Carl

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Yes, and skin tones. Restaurant interiors are often full of IR, with incandescent lighting, candles, hot food, perhaps heat-lamps on self-serve items... The IR contaminates the colors so that they cannot be made right in post.

And flash...

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How do you avoid color shifts this way with wides?

Use Capture One and the LCC profile. One click correction of Cyan drift.

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simple fact, you need the filter. I am a recent newcomer to M8 photography and I went down the line of 'dont worry about it-just take pictures'

But there is so much talk about it so put it the test. Here are two pictures of a cordura black camera bag, taken on a clear but not that sunny day. DNG no edit.

First NO filter

Second WITH filter

see the difference?

Concluded for me, filter back on and stays on.

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I still wonder how the M8 IR issue came to be.

 

Were the boffins at Leica really so out to lunch that

they let such an obvious problem get past them

until the camera was on the market and in the

hands of owners, or was it a marketing decision

made of necessity?

Was the M8 project so far down the road and so much

money committed to it when the IR problem was finally

identified that a decision was made to market the

camera, problem and all anyway; then do a

public grovel, tug of forelock and offer 'free' filters?

 

Obviously, the IR issue wasn't insurmountable

since it doesn't occur (to any great degree) with

the M9 using what is really the same CCD as

the M8, except for it's larger size.

 

Regards to all on the Forum

 

Sandy

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Even some famous reviewers were not alarmed by the excess of magenta then. Some of us on the LUF were the first ones to discover the problem: Bill Hollinger, Pascal Méheut and Marc Williams if memory serves. Leica have solved the issue with the M9, even if it still shows too much IR in some cases, but due (or thanks) to its "weak" sensor filter, the sharpness of the M8 remains unrivaled so far IMHO.

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