Jump to content

Does the M8 need to use IR Filter?


lagrassa

Recommended Posts

The general advice is to always fit one if you propose to shoot in colour. If you don't fit one, you may very well find a magenta tint in the corners, and in addition any black synthetic material in the shot will show as purple.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I first got my M8 and started taking pictures, my opinion was that it wasn't really needed. After I'd done more shooting, I found that there were instances when it was needed, that I couldn't always anticipate those (or didn't have time to attach the filter), and that the results were basically impossible to correct - so I have come around. Better with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be joinng the M8 club and remember reading some time back that an IR filter needs to be used. Is this absolutely necessary? What happens if you don't?

Thanks.

 

You'll want one, but you'll regret having it on if you have strong light sources in the frame. You'll get ghost reflections of the the light diametrically opposed to the source.

 

I've found that much of the time, I'm able to compensate for the color issues of not having the filter in Lightroom. That route won't lead to "more accurate" colors as much as it will "more pleasing".

Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

You'll want one, but you'll regret having it on if you have strong light sources in the frame. You'll get ghost reflections of the the light diametrically opposed to the source.

 

In three and a half years of using an M8 I've had that on a handful of shots, and they've all been taken at night where street lights have caused the problem.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You'll want one, but you'll regret having it on if you have strong light sources in the frame. You'll get ghost reflections of the the light diametrically opposed to the source.

 

 

The advantages of the UV/IR filter outweigh the disadvantages 999 times out of 1,000

 

The OP needs a UV/IR filter.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

IR contamination effects some fabrics – not just dark fabrics; every kind of fabric reflecting IR suffers some colour shift –, vegetation (green appears yellowish/brownish), and skin colour (appears purplish). Your best bet without an IR cut filter would be to avoid lighting containing IR, namely direct sunlight and tungsten lighting, as it is much harder to avoid subject matter that would not be affected by IR.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In three and a half years of using an M8 I've had that on a handful of shots, and they've all been taken at night where street lights have caused the problem.

 

Ditto that. And for the benefit of the OP before he orders filters, I'll add, in my experience, the reflection issue only happened early on when I was using Leica or B+W branded filters. I've never gotten any ghost reflections with Heliopan brand. When I look at the 3 brands side by side I can see much less surface reflection off the Heliopan, so they must have a different (better?) AR coating. The B+W "MRC" plain-UV has much less surface reflection than their 486 for some reason, and due to the high cost of the IR-cut filters, I experimented putting a B+W "MRC" plain-UV filter in front of the Heliopan IR-cut as protection, expecting to get reflections or contrast loss, and was surprised there was neither. I didn't see any objectionable color shift vs the Leica brand either, despite Leica's claim that only theirs exactly matches the M8's sensor.

 

In the beginning, being in denial about the need for the filters and determined not to use them, I used James Roberts' profile instead, and I must say it worked remarkably well. However it only corrected for black going magenta, not for the yellowing of green leaves and such. Using color replacement in CS worked ok for that, but it was a time waster. Eventually I gave in and admitted it's just cleaner to use the filters all the time.

Edited by bocaburger
Link to post
Share on other sites

Its been a few years since I purchased my M8.1. I never got my IR filters from Leica (a computer glitch at that time). Now that Ive read this, do you think they will send out filters ever after all this time has passed? Any suggestions who should I contact about this?:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

You'll want one, but you'll regret having it on if you have strong light sources in the frame. You'll get ghost reflections of the the light diametrically opposed to the source.

 

Don't scare the OP--saw they responded, but why not? :) Some context.

 

I've shot literally 8,000+ shots at night (out of 55K shots, total) with bright point sources, (streetlights, etc.) and I've had the reflection problem show up something like 1 time in 100 during very particular night shooting situations. In all cases when I wanted to use one of those shots with a reflection I can clone it out. Or I just use an alternate shot. Most times the backlighting renders the shot pretty unusable for other reasons anyway. I'm not downrating the severity of the problem when it happens--mind you, it's always been fixable--but I am contextualizing the frequency of the problem as "eh, not that often."

 

The *only* time I take the filter off is when I'm doing the "blow out the candles on the birthday cake" shot at birthday parties. Candles on a cake in a dark room are the one time that I consistently get nasty back-reflections from the filter that I won't feel like fixing later. This is literally the only scenario where I choose to remove the filter.

 

Of course, for IR shooting, the filter comes off. :)

 

I can say that when I rank problems in order of frequency, here's where they've fallen for me over 55K shots:

 

Frequent:

* Over/under exposure. Because I got sloppy with my metering. Happens more than I'd like. Shame on me.

- Fairly severe underexposure at night, resulting in excessive noise when exposure is adjusted up to brighten the shot. Number one issue.

- Over exposure resulting in blown highlights. Shame on me. Mostly recoverable. Rarely not.

* Slightly soft images, mis-focus. Shame on me. Usually at f/1.2. Sometimes recoverable with shapening.

 

In context of all photos I've ever shot, very rare:

* Cyan edges. Have to shift WB and/or or bump exposure.

* Veiling flare. Mostly with older lenses. Or when I've left off my lens hoods to get smaller kit. Shame on me. Always recoverable though contrast bump.

* Reflections from filter. See -->> ranks low in the scheme of things.

* Green stripe because of edge light source. Seen this problem in 10 or 12 shots over the life of the camera.

 

Your mileage may vary, but that's my experience. :)

 

 

I've found that much of the time, I'm able to compensate for the color issues of not having the filter in Lightroom. That route won't lead to "more accurate" colors as much as it will "more pleasing".

 

If you're willing to give yourself significant work in post to dicker with the color shifts--and with synthetics possibly ending up in a place where you really can't fix the shot without a lot of work--knock yourself out. Seems like it's easy to leave the filter on and deal with significantly fewer issues from reflections during those rare cases in post. To each his own, I suppose.

 

I *like* a filter on the front of my lenses, BTW. Protection for the lens front element from dust, fingerprints, scratches, etc. Yeah, they're not cheap, but I just figure the cost of the filter into the total buying price.

 

 

 

Its been a few years since I purchased my M8.1. I never got my IR filters from Leica (a computer glitch at that time). Now that Ive read this, do you think they will send out filters ever after all this time has passed? Any suggestions who should I contact about this?:)

 

Leica service should be contacted--look on the Leica website and call the service department. In my experience they do better by phone than E-mail. I expect they'll be decent about it and provide the filters for you even though some time has passed.

 

Cheers,

Will

Edited by wstotler
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got my M8.2 and don't yet have any of those filters. When/if I see something I don't like, for the type of photos I take, I'll consider getting the two that are provided at no cost, but so far, I've had no need for them.

 

If someone were to ask me the question you posted here, my answer would be to look at your photos and then decide if you like them or not. If there's a problem, you know how to fix it. If there's no problem, why bother?

 

 

 

Personally, I am very happy that I'm in this position. I enjoy taking infrared images, and with the M8.2 all you need to do this is an IR filter (that blocks out light other than IR). Otherwise, the Leica would have been as useless for IR photography as my Nikons, and I'd be spending a thousand bucks or so for yet another camera that can do IR.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't scare the OP--saw they responded, but why not? :) Some context.

 

I *did* say, "You'll want one." I haven't really meant to shoot without one, but I only have one E39 filter, and I have 35 and 50mm Summicrons. I have found myself out with the camera and a lens and discovered I left the filter on the other lens at home. And I've had the ghosting appear on several shots. Streetlights, skylights, lights in tunnels, bright windows, I've had ghosting in more than 1 in a 100 shots when I have been shooting filter-free.

 

And if I need to fix a shot, I have better success with color adjusting vegetation or magenta fabric than I do removing a green ghostly window frame covering a corner of the image. I have been using Photoshop professionally for almost a couple decades now, so I can process out the ghost reflections if I need to, but for most of my shots, a little curve, hue/sat, level, white balance adjustment is far easier and quicker, and usually quite effective.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had ghosting in more than 1 in a 100 shots when I have been shooting filter-free.

 

Of course I meant to say, "I've had ghosting in more than 1 in a 100 shots when I have been shooting with the filter." I hate when I edit a part of a sentence, and forget to edit the other part, that now no longer makes sense...

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are the sort of photographer who uses filters on lenses for protection anyway, then get those IR cut filters.

 

Otherwise expect, at the minimum, greens to be affected, certain synthetic materials to reflect IR and go purple (you won't know which ones until it's too late) and there will be an IR "ghost" image to degrade your shot.

 

This issue has been covered here in multitudes of threads and Leica wants us to use these filters for good reason.

 

Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...