carstenw Posted January 4, 2007 Share #41 Â Posted January 4, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) It is far off I am a bit down right now and will go watch a movie. I do think that since 20cm and 30cm appear similarly unfocused, the true point of focus is more like 23-25cm. Anyway, a small amount I could compensate for until Leica clears their backlog and I can get it fixed relatively quickly, but this much is a nightmare. I am not sure what I will do yet. I might ask my store if they will swap the camera for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 Hi carstenw, Take a look here M8 backfocus. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
khanosu Posted January 4, 2007 Share #42 Â Posted January 4, 2007 Enjoy the movies Carsten. This is indeed sad given the amount of time you have waited patiently for your camera to be sent back to you. Â Cheers! Furrukh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khanosu Posted January 4, 2007 Share #43 Â Posted January 4, 2007 Hey Carsten, if you feel really down then let me know and I will send you off to my mother in law. She also lives in Berlin and makes a mean kuchen that can cheer anyone up! Â Cheers, Furrukh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnelson Posted January 4, 2007 Share #44 Â Posted January 4, 2007 Carsten, Â I have real sympathy for you. When I first got my R9/DMR I had focus problems with it as well and had to send it back to be fixed. It was a real bummer having spent the money and then have to wait to get it fixed. They got mine the first time. Â Really sorry and feel for you... Â Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnkuo Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share #45 Â Posted January 4, 2007 Carsten, Â It's a real bummer that it wasn't fixed after all this wait. I'm sure Leica has huge backlog right now with all the hardware upgrade. For now I can simply learn to compensate a little bit, but I will send it in after everything is settled. Thanks all for your feedback in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 4, 2007 Share #46 Â Posted January 4, 2007 I took the shot vertically, since this makes it easier to focus on the line. Carsten, Â I'm clutching at straws here for your sake - Tim Jackson's instructions were quite specific that the test should be done with the camera at 45 degrees to the plane of the chart. Is it possible that this may have skewed your results? (If I'm being a dufus please disregard. ) Â Hopefully, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted January 4, 2007 Share #47 Â Posted January 4, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) The camera was at 45 degrees to the paper, but lilting slightly. If you think about turning the camera around an axis, and the position of the plane of focus, then it becomes clear that no error of mine could have caused the text to be properly lined up in the viewfinder yet be so off in the image. I did go back and double-check to see if I had made a mistake, and I also considered the magnitude as being misleading, but in the end, the error is just too large. Â My first experiment with the camera being at completely right angles to a bookshelf full of books, all flush with each other, and trying to get a sharp picture out of that setup, it was already clear that the camera had a problem. The overlapping images in the viewfinder are not even close when the image is sharp. Â I will test the infinity focus tomorrow. I might just keep the camera for a while before sending it back. It seems that Leica is upside-down at the moment, and I doubt that it will ease up for a couple of months, at least. Sending it back makes little sense. I might travel down there and chat with someone about it. Â The thing which bothers me a bit is that no matter what their tests on the optical bench look like, putting it to the eye when it is done, and snapping a couple of pictures, would have made abundantly clear that there was a problem. Apparently there isn't even time for something like that. I feel for them, I really do, but my spirit is a lot lower about the whole thing than it was a couple of weeks ago. Getting the camera back in no better shape, wrt. the focusing, is very disheartening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 5, 2007 Share #48 Â Posted January 5, 2007 That is indeed way off Carsten. On a more optimistic note- They completely bummed up a repair on my Digilux2 last summer - actually made it a lot worse to the point that the LCD showed a huge yellow exclamation mark which they would even have seen when blind drunk -(it went in for a focus repair (!)) but a heated e-mail resulted in a one-week turnaround, a perfect camera, an apology and a free battery (which I didn't need, but nice all the same). So there is hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmires Posted January 5, 2007 Share #49 Â Posted January 5, 2007 Carsten, The rangefinder coupling wheel on the M8 takes a 2mm allen wrench. The rangefinder can be adjusted by shooting a focus chart (or tape measure), chimping, and making very small adjustments with the allen wrench. Don't put D.O.F. exactly in the middle. If a 75mm Summilux, for example, is adjusted to center the D.O.F. at minimum focusing distance, the lens will front focus at 5 meters. With a little bit of trial and error, one will be able to make it usable until he is ready to send it back to the gnomes for a proper adjustment. Not that I would know any of this first hand, of course......Someone I know told me about someone he heard of who was told this would work... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted January 5, 2007 Share #50  Posted January 5, 2007 Furrukh, thanks for the funny offer of cake I think though that given my eating habits over the holidays that I should rather go to someone's mother-in-law who would force me to run a marathon  David, do you mean the screw front and centre, which holds the little wheel? This is the procedure for the infinity focus, isn't it? I will buy a 2mm wrench today. I do have some mechanical aptitude, so I am not afraid of wrecking anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 5, 2007 Share #51 Â Posted January 5, 2007 First, before adjusting, Carsten, did you consider rangefinder parallax? If you don't look into the viewfinder at a 90 degree angle, this will result in a parallax error of the RF patch, resulting in front- or backfocussing. It is particularly easy to make this error when using glasses. And even more easy to do so when looking into the viewfinder with the camera mounted on a tripod to photograph the ruler. The only correct way to do the test is to use one of these clip-on angle viewers to ensure a totally aligned optical path. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted January 5, 2007 Share #52 Â Posted January 5, 2007 First, before adjusting, Carsten, did you consider rangefinder parallax? If you don't look into the viewfinder at a 90 degree angle, this will result in a parallax error of the RF patch, resulting in front- or backfocussing. It is particularly easy to make this error when using glasses. And even more easy to do so when looking into the viewfinder with the camera mounted on a tripod to photograph the ruler. The only correct way to do the test is to use one of these clip-on angle viewers to ensure a totally aligned optical path. I made several tries, with and without the diopter, with and without the 1.25x loupe, on and off the tripod, all without my glasses, and they were all off. I adjusted the camera's infinity focus this morning, at the office, where I can see many spires on the horizon. I used both my 50 Lux Asph and my 1st gen 135/2.8, and they both agree. The focus was quite a bit off. Interestingly, church spires about a kilometer away focus differently than ones several kilometres away, so I had to be careful which one I chose. The close focus is still a bit off, I think horizontally, and definitely vertically, so I never really get a crisp image to focus on, but it will do for now. It is much better than before. I will contact Leica today via email and see what they say. Â Btw, the little wheel is very easy to adjust, and no force is needed. The switch from flat-head screwdriver to hex key was definitely a good decision. I wish I could adjust my M6 as easily, but there I will need a certain kind of little screwdriver, due to the screw's position being slightly inside the mount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 5, 2007 Share #53 Â Posted January 5, 2007 Good for you and good to know Carsten! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbjr Posted January 5, 2007 Share #54 Â Posted January 5, 2007 Carsten,The rangefinder coupling wheel on the M8 takes a 2mm allen wrench. The rangefinder can be adjusted by shooting a focus chart (or tape measure), chimping, and making very small adjustments with the allen wrench. Don't put D.O.F. exactly in the middle. If a 75mm Summilux, for example, is adjusted to center the D.O.F. at minimum focusing distance, the lens will front focus at 5 meters. With a little bit of trial and error, one will be able to make it usable until he is ready to send it back to the gnomes for a proper adjustment. Not that I would know any of this first hand, of course......Someone I know told me about someone he heard of who was told this would work... Â david- where on the camera can one find the coupling wheel? not sure that i want to try this, but might give it a go if it looks simple enough. thanks. Â john Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 5, 2007 Share #55 Â Posted January 5, 2007 Take off the lens, in the middle at the top sticking out to couple with the helix on the lens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 5, 2007 Share #56 Â Posted January 5, 2007 Carsten,The rangefinder coupling wheel on the M8 takes a 2mm allen wrench. The rangefinder can be adjusted by shooting a focus chart (or tape measure), chimping, and making very small adjustments with the allen wrench. Don't put D.O.F. exactly in the middle. If a 75mm Summilux, for example, is adjusted to center the D.O.F. at minimum focusing distance, the lens will front focus at 5 meters. With a little bit of trial and error, one will be able to make it usable until he is ready to send it back to the gnomes for a proper adjustment. Not that I would know any of this first hand, of course......Someone I know told me about someone he heard of who was told this would work... Â David: Â That is the adjusment for infinity focus. The near focus is a different adjustment and I am not sure if I have the directions for doing it. I think it may require a jig/dummy plug that goes in like a lens cap. I have an old military M2 repair manual and I will take a quick look at it and get back to the group. Â I just looked up the near setting. It looks a little more compicated than you would want to play with on your own. Incidentally, there was a distance setting gauge that went into the lens mount for setting up the rangefinder. This gauge had .7 meter, 1 meter and ten meter settings. The jig the camera went into had a target at a distance with reticles to focus on. There were three different reticles on the target, probably to simulate the 10m, .7m and 1m. mark. The Jig also had a magnifying eyepice to assure accurate focusing. The procedure was to set the 10m using the large roller then the distance setting plug is put in the 1m setting and a different graticle is used on the target. The near focus adjustment is then changed to align the graticle, 10m then checked again and the adjustments are made on both distances until a consistent focus is attained. Finally, the .7m is tested and the process of balancing the near with the far is started again. Â I forgot to add that the first sentence in the adjustment procedure was to make sure the lens flange to film plane distance was checked first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmires Posted January 5, 2007 Share #57 Â Posted January 5, 2007 Carsten, I'm glad you saw some improvement. Mike Prevette and Jaap - thanks for the very informative posts. Good stuff. Â David:Â That is the adjusment for infinity focus. The near focus is a different adjustment and I am not sure if I have the directions for doing it. I think it may require a jig/dummy plug that goes in like a lens cap. I have an old military M2 repair manual and I will take a quick look at it and get back to the group. Â I just looked up the near setting. It looks a little more compicated than you would want to play with on your own. Incidentally, there was a distance setting gauge that went into the lens mount for setting up the rangefinder. This gauge had .7 meter, 1 meter and ten meter settings. The jig the camera went into had a target at a distance with reticles to focus on. There were three different reticles on the target, probably to simulate the 10m, .7m and 1m. mark. The Jig also had a magnifying eyepice to assure accurate focusing. The procedure was to set the 10m using the large roller then more the distance setting plug is put in the 1m setting and a different graticle is used on the target. The near focus adjustment is then changed to alighn the graicle, 10m then checked again and the adjustments are made on both distances until a consistent focus is attained. Finally, the .7m is tested and the process of balancing the near with the far is started again. Thanks Rob! I'm glad mine is now close enough to live with, but I will wait for Leica to make further adjustments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbjr Posted January 5, 2007 Share #58 Â Posted January 5, 2007 wow! really helpful, guys. i'll probably take a look tonight, get intimidated, then wait to have solms do it, but nice to learn more about the camera. Â john Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 6, 2007 Share #59 Â Posted January 6, 2007 There looks to be a M2 manual similar to what I have on Ebay. It was the technical manual for the K-15 military version M2 used by the US Army. I wouldn't suggest it for taking apart a Leica, which it goes into great detail, but more to get a better understanding of the complexity of these cameras. Â After reading it you soon realize the amount of special tools and training that goes into working on these cameras. I was amazed the simplicity and ingenuity that went into Leica's special device for timing the shutters. Â eBay: Leica M2 Service manual - Printed (item 140071096614 end time Feb-03-07 06:36:42 PST) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 6, 2007 Share #60 Â Posted January 6, 2007 Robert--I agree completely with what you say, and want to extend the thought slightly as well: Â The simplicity of the solution coupled with the exactitude of workmanship is what defines Leica's mechanical soundness, IMHO. Â Once when I was shooting an M5, someone walking by said, "I prefer the M6; the M5 always seemed kinda Rube Goldberg to me." Yet that is the reason I like the M5--doing the simplest of things mechanically, like adding 0.5 mm to the shutter release throw to avoid having to increase the mechanical force necessary to swing the meter out of the way, or adding a baffle over the meter cell so that it reads the same way with all lenses. At the time only one meter on the market (a hand-held) had greater low-light sensitivity than the M5's. And because of the type of cell used, it didn't need an on/off switch since it shut itself off automatically in the dark. Â Yes, it's a little bigger, and I can't hand hold it as well as the other M's, and it died immediately in the marketplace; but to me it is spit and image of what Leica has always been. Â End of thread interruption. Â --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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