Have M8, Do Have Some Issues/Questions

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Steve and others,

I'm new to the forum and new to the M8. I picked mine up form the shop on the 23rd. One lens (28mm) put on in the shop. I found dust on the sensor right off. I thought this might be a freak camera so the shop replaced it for me. Within 50 shots, I again had sensor dust and not just a small amount. Again back to the shop. Replaced again with a third M8. Within 50 or 60 shots same problem. Now I know sensor dust is a fact of life...but it seems ridiculous to be cleaning the sensor after every 50 or so shots.

 

Note again that I have not changed the lens at all and neither have I been in dusty conditions. I suspect that the sensor (Kodak) is particularly prone to dust.

 

I've had the same problems with white balance. Not too bothered about this as I think a Firmware upgrade will deal to it.

 

I am frustrated about the dust though. When I'm travelling I want something more reliable.

 

Any thoughts anyone?

 

Thanks for your excellent feedback to date.

 

It is probably not dust but lose grease . These are mechnical camera's and inside there is lube on the parts and in the beginning there could be some lose grease that lands on the sensor just like breaking in a car that will go away after a hundreds shots or so. Folks this is normal , every camera i bought new in DSLR's and the M8 had the same exact issue. I'm talking at least 10 or 12 bodies here. I know this sounds bad but it is the truth . i said this several times. get some sensor swabs and eclipse and after one or to times the grease will go away and than all you deal with is dust from than on . BTW big hole means dust there is NO getting around it.

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[CVR]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Interestingly, there are many reports coming in at the moment of the M8 gathering sensor dust in a very short time as well as having dust right out of the box (as was the case for me). Check out the Rangefinder forum for those interested. This is becasue the camera is only now being really field tested since the first lot were returned.

 

The question of dust that interests me is how soon after cleaning, can one reasonably expect sensor dust to appear, say, in comparrison to other cameras of like quality. My 5d has been going for months and only after an intense travel shoot in very dusty conditions (including changing lenses) am I seeing one or two spots. Granted, sensor dust is a fact of life, but for a camera to be reliable it needs more mileage out of it than a couple of days between cleans.

 

Like others, my experience is that the blower does not clean off dust (as recommended in the manual page 128) and while some forum members recommend the artic butterfly, brushes are NOT recommended in the Leica manual. This means that a swab is the only way to clean sensor and I have been advised that continual cleaning with a swab will be deleterious to the sensor in the long run.

 

On the up side, I love the ease of use and compactness of the M8. I have enjoyed taking this out in the field very much.

 

I have enjoyed reading the forum and all the information I am learning is amazing. Thanks to all.

[jaapv]

Even on my venerable Canon 10D I had to use the Rocket Blower in the shower (not running ) every day when travelling . As mentioned, it is a fact of digital life. Get the Artic Butterfly, it takes the pain out of cleaning, especially on the easy to reach (admittedly also for the dust particles) M8 sensor. And after cloning tramlines and grit from scans of slides processed by clodhoppers who, judging by the dirt they spread, haven't washed for a year, a few little clones are a positive blessing...... Btw, the oil spots on the sensor will abate after the first hundred shots or so.

[marknorton]

Clodhoppers? There's a man who is fluent in English!

[jonoslack]

Hi Mark

 

Clodhoppers? There's a man who is fluent in English!

 

Being somewhat of a plonker myself (and a dirty one at that) I think there is a new 'problem' with the M8 - with the lenses being rather close to the sensor (unlike in a dslr) a dirty back element on a lens may also create spots on images - I certainly found that cleaning rear elements helped.

 

I haven't washed my sensor yet (the Kodak needed it all the time) but I do use a CO2 blower (no propellent) which has served me well.

 

But Mark - is he so fluent in english that he knows what a 'plonker' is?

 

and just to bug you, it's Friday night and it's a 2003 Pauillac - very nice too!

[jaapv]

I went to kindergarten in Little Haseley near Oxford. I don't recall learning the word clodhopper then though.

[craigrmurray]

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Clodhoppers? There's a man who is fluent in English!

Mark: is that an unusual slang term in the UK?

 

My dad used to say the phrase "Aw, your mother wears clodhoppers!" as an aside to jerks slightly out of hearing range. He was in the US Navy in WWII, and told me "clodhoppers" was the usual slang term for "combat boots". He heard it from his father, who fought briefly in WWI. I don't have an OED handy, nor any dictionaries of slang or colloquialisms, so I don't know how old it is, or if it is mainly an Americanism.

[jaapv]

I went to kindergarten in Little Haseley near Oxford. I don't recall learning the word clodhopper then though.

And certainly not plonker...

[larry]

Here's the definition from Merriam-Webster's Unabridged Dictionary:

 

Main Entry: clodhopper

Function: noun

 

1 a : a rustic (as a plowman) typically clumsy, heavy-footed, uncouth, and uninformed especially of urbane ways *clodhoppers T that never handled a sword Mark Twain* b : a clumsy heavy-footed cloddish person : DOLT

2 : a large heavy shoe

synonyms see BOOR

[jonoslack]

Here's the definition from Merriam-Webster's Unabridged Dictionary:

 

Main Entry: clodhopper

Function: noun

 

1 a : a rustic (as a plowman) typically clumsy, heavy-footed, uncouth, and uninformed especially of urbane ways *clodhoppers T that never handled a sword Mark Twain* b : a clumsy heavy-footed cloddish person : DOLT

2 : a large heavy shoe

synonyms see BOOR

 

Hi Larry

Thanks for that - I'd forgotten the shoe definition (but remembered the other).

 

Plonker is probably more recent - Pulling someone's Plonker is taking the mickey - I think it might be an anatomical reference, but can only suspect!

 

This is what I found on google:

 

Urban Dictionary: plonker

 

It would appear to mean almost anything you like!

[jaapv]

The meaning is quite clear: it has an anatomical connotation.

plonker [euph for penis] n :

dickhead, idiot, fool, wally.

 

How on earth did we get on this subject? I thought this was a photographic forum, not a semantic one:rolleyes:

[craigrmurray]

C'mon, Jaap -- sometimes semantics is fun. Better than some of the trolls and political barbs that are too often bandied about on the forum.

[donquixote]

I wonder if M8 isn't more prone to dust on the sensor than other digital cameras? I have used Nikon D1, D1x (two), D70 (two), D2h, D2x (two) and D200. I change lenses as I need to, always careful to do so quickly in a clean environment and to blow off potential dust with compressed air just before lens change. I have had no dust on any of those Nikon sensors. I mounted the 28mm ASPH as soon as I got M8 and did not have any dust enter at that time. After a week of using the 28mm I changed to 35mm f2 ASPH (both new enough to be coded). I did so in an airconditioned room as quickly as I could and I blew off any potential dust just prior to the lens change. Now there are two spots on the M8 sensor. In this image one spot is above the sun about 2 inches from the top edge and one is in the upper right corner. This is going to be a real disappointing feature if so.

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[CVR]

I wonder if M8 isn't more prone to dust on the sensor than other digital cameras? I have used Nikon D1, D1x (two), D70 (two), D2h, D2x (two) and D200. I change lenses as I need to, always careful to do so quickly in a clean environment and to blow off potential dust with compressed air just before lens change. I have had no dust on any of those Nikon sensors. I mounted the 28mm ASPH as soon as I got M8 and did not have any dust enter at that time. After a week of using the 28mm I changed to 35mm f2 ASPH (both new enough to be coded). I did so in an airconditioned room as quickly as I could and I blew off any potential dust just prior to the lens change. Now there are two spots on the M8 sensor. In this image one spot is above the sun about 2 inches from the top edge and one is in the upper right corner. This is going to be a real disappointing feature if so.

 

 

I've just had my M8 cleaned for the third time. Second camera. I am now testing this to see how much time I get out of it prior to requiring a clean. If I don't get more than a week of use out of it, without changing lenses, I will be sending the camera back for a refund, which I have made known. I reckon it is going to become an issue that Leica will fix, along with other issues it has, with the release of an M9. The lens required swabbing as a blower was insufficient and there are reports that grease got onto the sensor. I have been assured that it will settle down in a while. We shall see.

[jaapv]

I've just had my M8 cleaned for the third time. Second camera. I am now testing this to see how much time I get out of it prior to requiring a clean. If I don't get more than a week of use out of it, without changing lenses, I will be sending the camera back for a refund, which I have made known. I reckon it is going to become an issue that Leica will fix, along with other issues it has, with the release of an M9. The lens required swabbing as a blower was insufficient and there are reports that grease got onto the sensor. I have been assured that it will settle down in a while. We shall see.

 

This is not an issue specific to Leica, I fear. Welcome to the digital world. A lot depends on how you use your camera - any digital camera with exchangable lenses. I doubt Leica will "fix" it, as neither Canon nor Nikon have found a solution for larger sensors, and they have far more resources for R&D than Leica has. The Digilux3 has an ultrasonic internal sensor cleaning system. It might be the better camera for you. And - had it cleaned? It is something one does oneself.

[woodyspedden]

My .02 worth. The canon 1DsMkII is the worst dust catcher of all the DLSR's I have owned and that includes many. The DMR is much less sensitive and WAY more easily cleaned than the Canon. The M8, as in my experience, started with a very large number of spots, more so than any other digital camera. However after the initial set of three cleanings, the problem is now totally cleared up and the appearance of new spots about the equal of most other cameras, 1DsMkII excepted. I think the issue is really that of "stuff" which has accumulated during the manufacturing process which requires several cleanings to eliminate. Once done however there is no ongoing problem to be concerned about.

 

Woody Spedden

[sean_reid]

I haven't seen any more sensor dust on the M8s I've worked with than any other DSLR, etc. My FF Canon's have tended to attract more dust.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[CVR]

This is not an issue specific to Leica, I fear. Welcome to the digital world. A lot depends on how you use your camera - any digital camera with exchangable lenses. I doubt Leica will "fix" it, as neither Canon nor Nikon have found a solution for larger sensors, and they have far more resources for R&D than Leica has. The Digilux3 has an ultrasonic internal sensor cleaning system. It might be the better camera for you. And - had it cleaned? It is something one does oneself.

 

Hi Jaap,

I know what your saying, except I beg to differ. I have had my 5D for a lot longer and have no concerns about the sensor dust. The question that needs asking is what length of time is reasonable between cleans, which is what I asked earlier. If you are happy with a clean every 50 to 100 shots, which is what it is tracking at currently then OK. I personally am not. I think, for the price paid and to be a workable tool you need more out of it especially when you are out in the field. The reason the agent is cleaning it, is because they will be the ones to provide the refund so it eliminates doubts about the quality of the clean and any damage to the sensor by use of brushes (not recommended by Leica, see manual page 128) or excessive swabbing (also not recommended by Leica).

By the way, I only have one lens, so no lens changes.

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[CVR]

The M8, as in my experience, started with a very large number of spots, more so than any other digital camera. However after the initial set of three cleanings, the problem is now totally cleared up and the appearance of new spots about the equal of most other cameras

Woody Spedden

 

 

Hi Woody,

 

Yep, this is what I have read on a number of forums and is exactly what I am counting on.

 

By the way, something completely different, has anyone got some focusing tips for the M8. I find moving targets a little hard to manage with the split screen.

[carstenw]

What is the movement? For small movements, focus once, then move your body back and forth from the waist. For large movements which are too fast to follow, pre-focus and anticipate the subject reaching the plane of focus, releasing just before it does.