New EVIL Body for R lenses?

[stunsworth]

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Full frame, APS would be too close to the 4/3 cameras to be worthwhile IMHO. It would also tie in with the hints Leica have made about there being a full frame EVF solution for R users.

[lct]

Yes makes sense. Hard to imagine Panny taking the FF plunge though. Hope i'm wrong.

[rosuna]

I seriously doubt any interest of Panasonic in a FF camera system. I may be wrong, but even Sony seems to be reconsidering their position (they have 3 systems in photography, plus video). Panasonic is for mass consumption electronics. They already have the prestige they need just where they need it. In fact, they don't need Leica anymore. The micro 4/3 system is their base for a wide offer of photo and video products.

 

Leica looks for expensive (high margins) niche products (weak competition, strong differentiation).

 

Maybe the future "partners" for Leica are more like the subcontractors used for the X1 camera.

 

Looking at the X1, it is clear to me that Leica (and the partners) need to improve the technology if they want to build a modern FF Evil system. The S2 is a great reference, but a CMOS-based camera with a different AF system is a different thing.

 

A FF EVIL camera is a great idea for a new system with future possibilities, but it may slowly evolve from the M system specifications anyway. The idea is not replace the classic M cameras, but to build a system with relative advantages in price, size and modern features following the FF mirrorless principle. It should be a more mass-oriented product (more than the M or the S systems), but not like the micro 4/3 cameras are. The R system is extinct. Then, if there is not interoperation between that new system and the M system the idea don't look so good.

[rob_x2004]

Which is why I said that I thought Panasonic would release a full frame EVF camera that used the R mount.

 

Im not so sure. Why would leica let a mount out, or label a 'Leica body', for lenses they were no longer in a position to produce.

"Hey heres a camera. Find your own old lenses". I dont think stranger things have happened at sea.

Dream camera would be M EVF made of solid plastic with format safe "frame" lines. I cant smell pig on the wind though:(.

[stunsworth]

Im not so sure. Why would leica let a mount out, or label a 'Leica body', for lenses they were no longer in a position to produce..

 

Well for one thing they said that they were going to. Also, you are correct that they don't have any lenses to sell, but I'd guess a good percentage of R owners would buy the body - and unlike the R&D of developing a new body, all it would cost Leica would be the price of a red dot to stick on the front.

 

Panasonic on the other hand would have a new body _they_ could sell - perhaps with some Leica branded AF lenses.

[mooky]

I'm 90% sold on the idea that Leica will come with a FF digital body of some kind, sooner than later (later is now anyway) as they said there will not be a FF DSLR from Leica.

 

They will not leave R system owners out to dry like Canon did years ago with manual lens not having a use on the EOS system. It's not in their make-up to run-over their customers. Yes, there is no R system any longer in production, they are technically capable of figuring out how to deliver a body of some type that will work with R lenses.

 

But I don't believe they will just have a body either. They wouldn't make enough money to justify that. They have thrown out enough hints already, and if they have some new techno-wizbang idea, you can bet they won't make the 'auto-focus mistake' again. Which by and large is why we're all waiting and talking about the 'solution' today. Maybe it will be with another company - which would make little difference to me as long as it is well thought out and in standing with Leica's tradition.

[rob_x2004]

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Panasonic on the other hand would have a new body _they_ could sell ..... with some Leica branded AF lenses.

 

Which is what we all said in the first place.

Anyway, till the price comes out and everyone starts whining and bitching again.

[rob_x2004]

t's not in their make-up to run-over their customers.

 

................................................... ............................................:D:D

[lieberdavid]

Hi Everyone,

 

While I think all digital cameras are evil : - ) , I am in the dark as to what "EVIL" means in the context of this thread.

 

Will someone please tell me?

 

Thanks and Cheers!

David

[wildlightphoto]

I am in the dark as to what "EVIL" means in the context of this thread.

 

Electronic

Viewfinder

Interchangeable

Lens

[Angora]

By the way, I've always thouht that EVIL started as a joke... that at first the term "EVF camera" was more common, at the same time many of us thought the idea was bad so the "EVIL" appellation came up. And that the "Interchangeable Lens" had been added later, as a pseudo-justification.

[Riley]

it was first coined at dpreview forums by Cephalotus December 31, 2005

[jaapv]

The first board meeting should be interesting

Not so much so - in the camera division, the two are hardly competitors - Zeiss lenses compete with the Leica used market, not with the new products, although one could make a minor case for the Summarit line, the same for film camers and Zeiss is not about to build a competitor for any of Leica's digital cameras. In the sports optics division things may be different commercially, but there is a strong connection on a personal level - Often families in the Wetzlar-Solms area will have members that work for Leica and other members working for Zeiss - they meet on birthdays and in the beerhall.

[jaapv]

Im not so sure. Why would leica let a mount out, or label a 'Leica body', for lenses they were no longer in a position to produce.

"Hey heres a camera. Find your own old lenses". I dont think stranger things have happened at sea.

Because Mr. Daniel said : "There will be a solution for our R system users - and it will not be built by Leica"

I translate that as a Leica rebadged ff camera with its own lens collection but with a Leica R adapter.

[rob_x2004]

Because Mr. Daniel said : "There will be a solution for our R system users - and it will not be built by Leica"

I translate that as a Leica rebadged ff camera with its own lens collection but with a Leica R adapter.

 

Which is precisely what I said.

Although I figured it would be panasonic, because they are already familair with Leicas requirements for badging the lenses while achieving practical compatability (eg IS AF etc) issues, though I accept it could be anyone. Its very hard to follow isnt it.

[georg]

Maybe we started a myth of our own with the whole EVIL-Full-Frame-idea and Leica has absolutely no idea what we're talking about. ;-)

 

What we know from Leica's statements:

 

1. There won't be a full-frame-DSLR (R10) - they found an alternative solution which is more promising (not in direct competition to C/N established top-DSLRs), usable EVFs (as good as an R9-viewfinder?) just became available (digital cinematography) - something not in reach when the R10 was started.

 

2. They have a large R&D-team for digital cameras which stopped working on the R10 over one year ago and is on to something else. Neither the M9 nor the X1 was developed by them, because they've been busy somehow...

 

3. It won't be µ4/3 - that's Panasonics game just as Panasonic is not particulary interested in full-frame (even Sony seems less than motivated to update their Alpha-system).

 

4. There will be an "adequate" solution for R-lens-users. That's full-frame - keep in mind, we're talking about a camera developed by Leica, made by their high-class suppliers - it won't be cheap, it won't be mass-market (just like the M9).

 

5. It will be AF - new lenses as well as a new mount with a shorter flange-distance to adapt at least R-lenses.

 

A full-frame EVIL will be the most logical solution - if it will be presented at Photokina or a few months later on PMA? Who knows, but something besides the "classic" M-system and below their S-system which also works as an R10-replacement. What else could it be?

 

They need a good EVF (available in the small-scale cinematography-market), an independent full-frame-CMOS (Cypress or Dalsa?) supplier and a custom-made ASIC (just like they did with the S2) to process the high-resolution EVF-data and contrast-AF in a usable way (not X1)

- that's not the most convenient way to create a digital camera and neither the cheapest - but they already did it with the S2, hopefully they do it again - there propably won't be a second chance (ridicously well-selling products, new HQ on it's way, R&D waiting for work, no direct competition yet).

 

 

@jaapv

"There will be a solution for our R system users - and it will not be built by Leica"

 

That's the first time I hear from that. As far as I know he said there won't be an µ4/3-solution from Leica

[jaapv]

He said it at the LUF meeting dinner in 2009. The "no 3/4rds" stance dates back to before that time.

[georg]

So my whole theory is obsolete and all they will come up with is another rebadged camera?

[jaapv]

Who knows? Nothing is as volatile as the digital market.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[mjh]

I’ve witnessed Stefan Daniel saying that Leica wasn’t interested in Micro FourThirds shortly after that standard was introduced but prior to photokina 2008, so it must have been August 2008. Similar statements have been made repeatedly since then; Leica has been pretty consistent in that respect. The statements concerning an adequate solution for the use of R lenses involving a FF EVIL body were made during the forum meeting in Hessenpark in June 2009 (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/89060-hessenpark-news-official-no-r10-no.html). Obviously even the most thorough exegesis of what was said at the Hessenpark meeting will only tell us about Leica’s plans as of June 2009; these plans may have changed since then.