Tony C. Posted December 30, 2006 Share #1 Â Posted December 30, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Please bear with me, as I've only owned one previous rangefinder (Contax G2), and am not familiar with the Leica lenses. Â I am considering an M8, and would really appreciate feedback from those with opinions on the relative advantages and disadvantages of the three obvious 50mm options. To make things a bit more simple, let's not include price as an issue. I'm well aware of how expensive the Noctilux is, but let's remove value from the equation, and focus (groan!) on performance. Â One other qualification: I am very interested in low light (and available light) shooting. I imagine that the Noctilux is superior for that specific application, but am interested in some insights into the relative performance of the other two under such conditions. Â OK, that's enough from me, so it's your turn now. Â Thanks in advance! Â Tony C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 30, 2006 Posted December 30, 2006 Hi Tony C., Take a look here Noctilux, 50mm 1.4, or 50mm 2.0?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ho_co Posted December 30, 2006 Share #2 Â Posted December 30, 2006 Tony-- The Noctilux is excellent wide open. Available light is where it shines. After all, if you're not planning to use it at f/1, there's no need to buy it. Problem: It's heavy and big, and blocks more of the viewfinder than the other two lenses do. Â The Summicron is an excellent, light, compact general-purpose lens, but obviously two stops slower than the 50/1.0. Â Both those lenses are of somewhat older design. The current Summilux is an amazing modern achievement. Erwin Puts commented when it first came out that it is the first normal focal length for which the f/1.4 lens actually performs as well as its f/2 counterpart. Â My personal choice would be the 50/1.4 ASPH; but if you need the extra speed, don't be afraid to go with the 50/1.0. Â Suggestion: If possible, handle the Noctilux before purchasing to see whether its extra speed offsets its size and weight for you. Â Leica lenses in general are quite usable wide open, so buy the aperture you need. Â --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted December 30, 2006 Share #3 Â Posted December 30, 2006 I can only speak for the 50mm 1.4 and it certainly performs well in low light but it lacks that one additional stop you get with the Noctilux. If low light is your thing the Noctilux is your lens. Of course with the M8 you can adjust your ISO on the fly and see the results NOW. I like the size and weight of the 1.4 compared to the Noctilux. The Noctilux is a big heavy lens compared to all the other M's. Purely my $.02 worth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 30, 2006 Share #4 Â Posted December 30, 2006 I have both the Noctilux and the Summilux ASPH and I agree with Bill and HC's comments. Â The Summilux is an extraordinary lens, incredibly sharp, easy to use, compact and would be my first choice. Â The Nocti is a great lens, an older design, and you buy it for the way it draws and that extra stop. It's big and heavy though and difficult to focus because the focussing scale is 4 times as long and it doesn't even focus as closely as the Summilux (1m against 0.7m). That makes it slow to focus - lots of feeding the focussing ring through your fingers - and it also takes time to get it right because the focussing is so critical. Â The Nocti is made in Canada and it's not clear whether it's still in production or whether there's just a residual stock being run down. Â No experience of the Summicron but of course it has a great reputation. With an M8, you might find the Summicron is all you need for a 50mm and for speed, you might find the 35mm Summilux is better. Â Difficult to see any of the lenses being replaced anytime soon. How could the Summilux be measurably improved? What would be the business case for revising the Nocti because 50mm is, in the M8 world, no longer a "normal" lens? They tried an ASPH Summicron and it wasn't worth the extra cost. If Leica have any M lens development budget, we need faster wide-angles... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lykoudos Posted December 30, 2006 Share #5  Posted December 30, 2006 Hello Toni and cordially welcomely in the forum., I decided against the Noctilux: Too largely too heavily and too massively. And everything because of f/1. I have myself instead the Summilux 1.4/50 bought and is very content with the size, the weight and the screen of 1,4. A outstanding objective. But the thing wants to be well considered. I left myself four months thereby time and examined both exactly and decided me then for the Summilux.  Kind regards and a good new year to all  Wolfgang (Leica MP grey hammertone, 2,8/28; 1,4/50; 2/90) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsmith Posted December 30, 2006 Share #6 Â Posted December 30, 2006 The Noctilux records an image with a unique look, even at 1.4. Don't think of it as a comparison to the 50 Lux and if you really need a 1.0 aperature. Night scenes at even 1.4 , 2.0, 2.8 look much different than a 50 Lux, they have far less flare from bright light sources for one thing. I suggest you google "noctilux" and spend a couple of hours looking at Noct images. The Noctilux just happens to be a 50mm (66mmon a M8) You buy this lens for it's "look" AND it's speed. If you are going to use a M8 buy the Lux only if you really need a 66mm lens, or I would suggest a 35 or 75 Lux instead of the 50 lux. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsmith Posted December 30, 2006 Share #7 Â Posted December 30, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Also, that the focusing is long is a big advantage with the Noctilux. It's actually very easy to focus. Great control on the focus ring, it's easy to dial in perfectly with good eyesight. Compared to my large Canon glass it's pretty small for what your getting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted December 30, 2006 Share #8 Â Posted December 30, 2006 I myself own the Nocti, not because I am so convined that this is the best incarnation of a 50mm lens, BUT because I wanted to own one! And I am having exceptional fun with it! Â If I would have to decide without that feelings I would definitely go for the 1,4/50 ASPH, which is the best combination of being fast, low weight, handy and exceptional quality. Â Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 30, 2006 Share #9 Â Posted December 30, 2006 If you were buying two lenses I'd go for the Nocti and Summicron. If you only want to buy a single lens then I'd go for the Summilux. It's an exceptional lens. Â The Nocti can focus very accurately, but that comes at the expense of speed, it can seem to take forever to turn the focussing ring. Don't think of it just as an f1 lens, it's excellent at all apertures and is the most flare resistant lens I've ever used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted December 30, 2006 Share #10 Â Posted December 30, 2006 It used to be that you really needed to be a Night Hawk to fully appreciate the Noctilux. Â However, the M8's top shutter speed of 1/8000th takes this lens to a whole new level of use. The camera allows use of this lens wide open in broad daylight, which used to require strong ND filtration to achieve (and even then not always fully). Â Despite most users stating ease of focus, you should be aware that @ f/1.2 close up this is a demanding lens. The margin for user error increases dramatically when shooting non static subjects, and the longer focus throw doesn't exactly promote the speed needed to capture even slightly moving subjects. However, anticipatory focusing techniques can mitigate that to some degree. Â So, depending on your projected over-all use and subject matter, the 50/1.4 ASPH may be the better choice .... because it offers a wide aperture coupled with a shorter, faster focusing throw. Â When I owned a Noctilux, I supplemented it with a 50/2 for more general photography. A M camera sporting a Noctilux wasn't exactly a kit I'd drop into my overcoat pocket for casual walk-about photography. Â BTW, anyone know if the 50/2.8 collapsable can be used on the M8? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 30, 2006 Share #11 Â Posted December 30, 2006 Sadly not, it can damage the camera if you retract the lens, probably hitting the shutter which sits further forward than in the M7. I suggested to Leica that they provide a metal collar (as a slightly more "engineered" solution to a shoe lace or piece of dymo tape) to prevent the lens retracting all the way but of course they've been busy fire-fighting elsewhere. Â I'd quite like to use this lens on an M8... but maybe the 28/2.8 without hood is a close substitute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 30, 2006 Share #12 Â Posted December 30, 2006 Sadly not, it can damage the camera if you retract the lens, probably hitting the shutter which sits further forward than in the M7. I suggested to Leica that they provide a metal collar.. DIY collars work fine on the R-D1 (old shoelace and piece of strap here). Should do it on the M8 as well. The lens can be partially collapsed that way and remains smaller than a Summicron 50 on the body. Â Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_b_elmer Posted December 30, 2006 Share #13 Â Posted December 30, 2006 I have the Summicron 50 mm - in my closet. Â I have 2 Summilux 50 mm packed in a parcel ready to send to a photoshop for sale. Â I just received a Noctilux. That one is sitting on my M8 right now and will be used together with the 35/1.4 and the 75/1.4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 30, 2006 Share #14 Â Posted December 30, 2006 I'm in mental debate about the Nocti. i have the lux and i really love it for almost everything .When i was in Yosemite i had a Nocti with me also and it's look is certainly different. My issue is not the size or speed of focusing , i am very used to R lenses and the Nocti is very comparable there so it does not bother me but sometimes given the background the out of focus area' are just flat out ugly but if you get it correctly it is really hardto beat and is very unique. I sit here today with a filter ready for it if i buy one. I'm ready but just can't seem to push myself over the edge yet to buy one , maybe a great price would help. But I'm also in mental debate what i want to be when I grow up also with a DMR system and a M8 system. I want one that has a bigger file and that means MF and than a very dear friend directly asked me a question are your clients demanding more and the answer is no there not. oh hell maybe just get the Nocti with my 30 percent off and be done with it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted December 30, 2006 Share #15 Â Posted December 30, 2006 Tony, One thing to remember whatever you choose - on an M8 the 50mm lens will act like a 67mm lens on your Contax, whilst a 35mm lens will give the same field of view on the M8 as a 50mm on your Contax. I expect you know this! If it is that particular field of view you are used to and are looking for, the choice is easier. Â Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sievers Posted December 30, 2006 Share #16  Posted December 30, 2006 Why I have a Noctilux  http://farm1.static.flickr.com/120/312095224_868c09d89a_b.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smep_reloaded Posted December 30, 2006 Share #17  Posted December 30, 2006 The Noctilux is a dream for everyone who is new to the leica m-system.  But think if  - you want to carry such a big and heavy (630g) lens - really need f1.0 and how often you will use it   I own the Summilux-M 50/1,4 (non-asph./last version) and for me it´s perfect.  I have tested directly against the new Summilux-M 50/1,4 asph. twice and I like the Bokeh of my lens much better. The Bokeh of the new aspherical lens is very harsh!  Regards Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted December 30, 2006 Share #18 Â Posted December 30, 2006 I'm in mental debate about the Nocti. i have the lux and i really love it for almost everything .When i was in Yosemite i had a Nocti with me also and it's look is certainly different. My issue is not the size or speed of focusing , i am very used to R lenses and the Nocti is very comparable there so it does not bother me but sometimes given the background the out of focus area' are just flat out ugly but if you get it correctly it is really hardto beat and is very unique. I sit here today with a filter ready for it if i buy one. I'm ready but just can't seem to push myself over the edge yet to buy one , maybe a great price would help. But I'm also in mental debate what i want to be when I grow up also with a DMR system and a M8 system. I want one that has a bigger file and that means MF and than a very dear friend directly asked me a question are your clients demanding more and the answer is no there not. oh hell maybe just get the Nocti with my 30 percent off and be done with it You need the Noctilux because ..it is the best for available light portraits. I have the Noctilux , the current Summicron and have used the older version of the Summilux. The Summilux has exceptional sharpness and contrast ...but seems colder almost clinical in how it draws. I use my Summicron in decent light f4 and up..and when size is important ...like your photos in NY . But when I want something special like a window portrait or an interior shot ...the Noctilux is the best. OK there s the business case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted December 30, 2006 Share #19 Â Posted December 30, 2006 The Summicron 50 was my first lens when I bought into the m system some years ago. It provided the signature rendition that Leica glass is renowned for and was instrumental in hooking me on the exceptional merits of the system. I later supplemented the cron with a Noctilux and find that they make a fine working pair. Shooting film in low available light, it becomes immediately obvious why and what the Nocti was designed for. It is without peer when all you have to work with are a few smudges of light. Â The advent of the m8 and its ability to change iso on a shot-by-shot basis somewhat mitigates the need for f1 in low light. But as Marc described, what you gain is an entirely new capability - being able to routinely use f1 in all sorts of normal lighting situations. I find the prospect of being able to do that very exciting. (I don't yet have my m8. I'm next up at my local dealer for a silver model and am hoping that it will be in any day). Â All that said, my favorite lens, the one that spends the most time on my m7, is the 35 lux ASPH. It's an extraordinary lens and I love it so much that if I didn't already have the Noct and the 50 Cron I'd have the 50 lux ASPH in a heartbeat. I still may, at some point. It's just hard to rationalize given what I've already got. Â So to answer your question, were it me, I think I'd second the notion that the 50 lux makes a superlative single-lens choice in that focal length. If you can spring for two, the Noct has got to be one of 'em. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 30, 2006 Share #20 Â Posted December 30, 2006 You need the Noctilux because ..it is the best for available light portraits. I have the Noctilux , the current Summicron and have used the older version of the Summilux. The Summilux has exceptional sharpness and contrast ...but seems colder almost clinical in how it draws. I use my Summicron in decent light f4 and up..and when size is important ...like your photos in NY . But when I want something special like a window portrait or an interior shot ...the Noctilux is the best. OK there s the business case. Â Thanks Rodger . i love when you guys spend my money. i guess there is some payback:D :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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