Great Old Performers (and M8)

[sergiolov]

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Thanks for making these tests available. I think this is easily correctible in the M8 firmware, once we see how the Leica 21/2.8 behaves, and mark the mount of your lens to impersonate the coded Leica 21. (Reid Reviews should have that information soon, but perhaps not until the next firmware is released.

 

Speaking of great old performers, i have a Canon 19/3.5 rangefinder lens from the 60's which I will try out once my M8 gets to me in another week or two. It sits very deep in the camera body, so i am not sure how well it will do, but it was fun to use with film.

 

scott

 

Scott,

great work. Do you think that it could be possible to distribute a few targets (asking to Norman)

so that if someone has some particular lens not covered by technical reviews, he could send the files to you to create a sort of archive of performance,expecially for the older ones. MTF, distortion etc. I guess this could be usefull for many as a guide.

I am curious to see the results of the Canon. I have a screw mount 35 2 -small and light, - that shows very good center sharpness and is nearly as old as the biogon.

Sergio

[scott kirkpatrick]

The rear lens of the old biogon is only 9mm from the focal plane, so I was especting to see a terrible amount of vignetting. Offset microlensing for sure changed the equation, if there is'nt something else not disclosed that helps.

As a side note, I also expected light metering blockage, but, on the contrary, auto exposure is correct.

 

Sergio

 

I'm hoping the same for the Canon 19. Its rear glass ends up 19 mm inside the mount, but twisting it and looking at the iris blades, it seems the exit pupil is still pretty close to the mount level. It vignettes quite obviously on full frame film.

 

 

 

scott

[scott kirkpatrick]

Scott,

great work. Do you think that it could be possible to distribute a few targets (asking to Norman)

so that if someone has some particular lens not covered by technical reviews, he could send the files to you to create a sort of archive of performance,expecially for the older ones. MTF, distortion etc. I guess this could be usefull for many as a guide.

I am curious to see the results of the Canon. I have a screw mount 35 2 -small and light, - that shows very good center sharpness and is nearly as old as the biogon.

Sergio

 

The targets you need for MTF and distortion are a slanted edge and a grid of lines. I create both on my lcd screen, using files that are available for download on the Imatest website. The critical part of doing the spatial response accurately is alignment, a solid tripod, and care in smoothing any extraneous lighting. It's something you can do at home (and maybe should). Running Imatest is no big deal. It's getting a little expensive, as Norm has put a lot of work into it, but you can download a test version with 20 free test executions and plan your work carefully. I had students do this with their cellphone cameras recently.

 

I also have the Canon 35/2, which must have been a kit lens way back when. It was my main lens for the M2. A little soft (also according to Sean Reid's LL articles on wide angles and fast lenses for the RD-1) but I got some great pictures with it.

 

scott

[sergiolov]

The targets you need for MTF and distortion are a slanted edge and a grid of lines. I create both on my lcd screen, using files that are available for download on the Imatest website. The critical part of doing the spatial response accurately is alignment, a solid tripod, and care in smoothing any extraneous lighting. It's something you can do at home (and maybe should). Running Imatest is no big deal. It's getting a little expensive, as Norm has put a lot of work into it, but you can download a test version with 20 free test executions and plan your work carefully. I had students do this with their cellphone cameras recently.

 

I also have the Canon 35/2, which must have been a kit lens way back when. It was my main lens for the M2. A little soft (also according to Sean Reid's LL articles on wide angles and fast lenses for the RD-1) but I got some great pictures with it.

 

scott

 

The 35 2 was also my main lens on the m2. And at that time I didn't care at all about sharpness.... but on the m8 it is not so unsharp. If you take a look to this page, and clic on the 6th image, there is a full resolution Canon 35 shot with the M8.(at 5,6)

Documento senza titolo

One friend of mine, a very good photographer, says that some reviewers evaluate lenses as they were tasting wines...which can be sometimes a very pleasant way to do that.LOL

Thanks for info. I'll try Imatest and hope to be considered as one of your students when I'll ask questions.

Sergio

[scott kirkpatrick]

The 35 2 was also my main lens on the m2. And at that time I didn't care at all about sharpness.... but on the m8 it is not so unsharp. If you take a look to this page, and clic on the 6th image, there is a full resolution Canon 35 shot with the M8.(at 5,6)

Documento senza titolo

 

Where is Sila? I particularly liked the shot with half the village parking their carts, the men in the hot springs and the women chatting in the shade.

 

scott

[sergiolov]

Where is Sila? I particularly liked the shot with half the village parking their carts, the men in the hot springs and the women chatting in the shade.

 

scott

 

And so, instead of giving all your attention to a high resolution test image, you lost your time looking at crappy badly focused low res snapshots! lol.

 

Sila is in Calabria, southern Italy. It is a forest, a mountain system with a few villages, not far from the coast. A few more galleries on the subject on the on work site I am preparing scanning the old negatives,in case you want to take a look, are here:

index of

Sergio

[Peter41951]

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Sergio, thank you for sharing these great older photographs. I also was much taken by your CV15 shots.

[sergiolov]

Sergio, thank you for sharing these great older photographs. I also was much taken by your CV15 shots.

Thanks for looking, Peter. I effects, it was Jono's fault if I scanned these, as he seemed to appreciate a few I showed him.

Have a wonderful new year.

Sergio

[scott kirkpatrick]

And so, instead of giving all your attention to a high resolution test image, you lost your time looking at crappy badly focused low res snapshots! lol.

 

You bet! Any time.

 

Sila is in Calabria, southern Italy. It is a forest, a mountain system with a few villages, not far from the coast. A few more galleries on the subject on the on work site I am preparing scanning the old negatives,in case you want to take a look, are here:

index of

Sergio

 

Thanks. Is there anything like that village there today? Rousillon, in the south of France, got discovered, photographed, analyzed by resident sociologists arouind the same time that you were in Calabria, and is now a fancy suburb of Nice.

 

I have some photos that I might still be proud of from that same time frame in Chicago, but haven't found a solution to scanning. Haven't got space for a scanner in my home office, and the results with recent film from a good camera shop vary from interesting to unusable, depending on who's doing the swcanning that day. What is your procedure?

 

scott

[scott kirkpatrick]

The 35 2 was also my main lens on the m2. And at that time I didn't care at all about sharpness.... but on the m8 it is not so unsharp. If you take a look to this page, and clic on the 6th image, there is a full resolution Canon 35 shot with the M8.(at 5,6)

Documento senza titolo

 

I'm a week away from getting my M8. I'll dust off the 35/2 and let you know if something nice results.

 

scott

[jonoslack]

Thanks for looking, Peter. I effects, it was Jono's fault if I scanned these, as he seemed to appreciate a few I showed him.

Have a wonderful new year.

Sergio

HI Sergio, I've been reading this thread - most interesting, but I haven't anything to add.

 

If I was instrumental in getting you to scan more of these then I feel very priviledged - I thought that they were wonderful - you should enter them in the new Leica 'book' contest.

 

I still haven't got myself a 21mm lens - I just can't decide which to buy.

 

Happy New Year

[sergiolov]

You bet! Any time.

 

 

 

Thanks. Is there anything like that village there today? Rousillon, in the south of France, got discovered, photographed, analyzed by resident sociologists arouind the same time that you were in Calabria, and is now a fancy suburb of Nice.

 

I have some photos that I might still be proud of from that same time frame in Chicago, but haven't found a solution to scanning. Haven't got space for a scanner in my home office, and the results with recent film from a good camera shop vary from interesting to unusable, depending on who's doing the swcanning that day. What is your procedure?

 

scott

 

Scott, you have to find a space for a scanner. I lost most of the film rolls of the sixties,but luckily (?) my wife saved a few of these in an box that I found a pair of months ago when, waiting for the m8, I wanted to anticipate the feel taking out of the drawer the m2. So I needed a scanner also, and researched for film to test it. Mind you, I had never printed any of these.

I use an Epson V750. I think the quality is adeguate for the job, and relatively fast. It takes approx. 25 minutes to scan 24 negs at 2400 dpi. if you want, you can adjust curves,color

etc of every exposure, or just leave that in auto,as I mostly do.

Otherwise, I wonder if you could make some experiments with a slide duplicator and a dslr.

Waiting for these Chicago shots.

Not been in Sila for many years, but I guess that changes have been sensibly slower than in Rousillon.

Sergio

[sergiolov]

HI Sergio, I've been reading this thread - most interesting, but I haven't anything to add.

 

If I was instrumental in getting you to ......

 

I still haven't got myself a 21mm lens - I just can't decide which to buy.

 

Happy New Year

 

Hi Jono, YOU were, and you should feel remorse for that....if in anyway capable of such a sentiment

For sure, not so easy to make a choice for the 21. All I can say is that I tested the Zeiss 25 side by side with the tri elmar 28 35 50. No comparison. The Zeiss is superbly sharp also full open, clear, with a visibly neutral color rendition and not appreciable distortion. A great lens.

 

Sergio

[scott kirkpatrick]

Scott, you have to find a space for a scanner. I lost most of the film rolls of the sixties,but luckily (?) my wife saved a few of these in an box that I found a pair of months ago when, waiting for the m8, I wanted to anticipate the feel taking out of the drawer the m2. So I needed a scanner also, and researched for film to test it. Mind you, I had never printed any of these.

I use an Epson V750. I think the quality is adeguate for the job, and relatively fast. It takes approx. 25 minutes to scan 24 negs at 2400 dpi. if you want, you can adjust curves,color

etc of every exposure, or just leave that in auto,as I mostly do.

Otherwise, I wonder if you could make some experiments with a slide duplicator and a dslr.

Waiting for these Chicago shots.

Not been in Sila for many years, but I guess that changes have been sensibly slower than in Rousillon.

Sergio

 

The slide duplicator path is intriguing. I have a very sharp 50/2 macro lens for my E-1 which might be the perfect way to put 5 MPx under each negative. I could start by redoing some of the recent shots for which the camera store gave me poor scans, but I have about 3000 frames from Chicago in 1989-71 and I'd like to see some of those again. Like you, my anticipation of the M8 caused me to pull the M2 out of a very deep drawer, but I don't even have developing tanks or a washer any more. On the old negatives, I have contact sheets and was careful to number my rolls, so there is a good chance that I can find stuff. But it will take time, because once you start on that stuff, it is pretty engrossing.

 

scott

[sergiolov]

The slide duplicator path is intriguing. I have a very sharp 50/2 macro lens for my E-1 which might be the perfect way to put 5 MPx under each negative. I could start by redoing some of the recent shots for which the camera store gave me poor scans, but I have about 3000 frames from Chicago in 1989-71 and I'd like to see some of those again. Like you, my anticipation of the M8 caused me to pull the M2 out of a very deep drawer, but I don't even have developing tanks or a washer any more. On the old negatives, I have contact sheets and was careful to number my rolls, so there is a good chance that I can find stuff. But it will take time, because once you start on that stuff, it is pretty engrossing.

 

scott

 

I just tried this handling the d2x with micro nikkor in one hand, the negative in the other,

in front of a flash illuminated wall. At f22 to try to keep focus. Should work.

 

Sergio

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[bill vann]

Jono

 

I just rec'd my CV 21 mm Skopar. doing a walkabout later with it maybe will find someting to shoot.

 

will get some samples up.

 

nice, small cheap. if it works it will be a winner. f4 but...

 

got so many lenses i need to spend time and sort them see what works with my eye

 

bill

[scott kirkpatrick]

M8 arrived and this morning I had a chance to check out the Canon 19/3.5 that I bought used around 1970. It's pictured above in this thread.

 

Our neighborhood doesn'[t have any brick walls as imposing as the church used to show the prowess of Sergio's Zeiss 21/4.5, but we're pretty well set with rough stone walls and trees starting to show foliage for spring. Results at f/5.6 and f/8 are pretty sharp across the frame, and the contrast that I got was pretty good for such an old lens. There is a nice glow to it, and both of the following shots (50-60 degrees into the sun) show a flare spot, but:

 

 

 

 

both are full frame, ISO 320, developed in C1 using the "film extra shadow" profile, moving the black point up a bit, and turning off the chromatic noise filter that C1 seems to think is necessary as the camera default.

 

scott

[furcafe]

Sergio:

 

Was your Biogon modified @ all? I ask because I have Contax RF-to-LTM & Contax RF-to-M adapters (both w/focus coupling & 1 similar/identical to the 1 you linked to on eBay) but they don't permit the 21/4.5 to be mounted. I'm wondering if I would need to remove the swiveling lens guard that surrounds the rear element (on the Contax RF version, don't know about the similar Contarex version).

 

Thanks, Chris

 

It seems that very old lenses are still capable of great performance with the m8. This is merit of the original designers, but also of this little sensor with displaced microlenses.

The images posted were taken with a 1954 Zeiss biogon 21 4,5 for the postwar Contax (and left to me by my father many years ago)

-# 1 is the protagonist, taken with d2x

-# 2 is full image, to evaluate vignetting

-# 3 is 100% crop left lower corner for resolution

-# 4 is 100% crop center for resolution

-# 5 is full image, to have an idea of (very small) distortion and color

Not a scientific test, but a modest tribute by me to a veteran.

 

I am sure there are many other and possibly older great performers around.

Sergio

[scott kirkpatrick]

M8 arrived and this morning I had a chance to check out the Canon 19/3.5 that I bought used around 1970. It's pictured above in this thread.

 

I forgot to say above that metering seemed to work fine. I had mysteriously dark frame, all the rest OK. The back of the lens is 9 mm from the image plane, same as the Zeiss 21.

 

scott

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[scott kirkpatrick]

Here are two shots with my old and somewhat decrepit (the front element wobbles) Canon 35/2.0 LTM lens. I bought it used around 1970. It has the old Leitz adapter, which means I can Sharpie-code it if I wish. Flares quite a bit but still fairly sharp across the field.

 

 

C1, using JFI yellow filter#1 profile

 

 

C1, using JFI Tri-X profile. (pants were purple)

 

scott