Leica M system or R system

[kerontide]

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Hello everybody, good afternoon, I am a novel in this forum, and I want to buy a leica camera, but I do not know which, what is the really diference of the 2 systems, yes M system are small and quiet, telemetric camera, but R system is a reflex camera, a litle big.

 

what is the really diference? I do not know who system select?

 

someone have the 2 systems?

 

Thanks a lot.

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[wattsy]

I'd suggest visiting a dealer and extensively trying both systems before committing to one or the other. Only you can decide how the M or R system will fit with your own needs and preferences. What is you motivation for wanting a Leica camera? It seems a bit odd to me to have decided what make of camera you want before deciding upon what type.

[bill]

Sergi, welcome!

 

I suspect that this will be one of those threads that will both run and run, and lead to some lively debate.

 

In deciding between the two systems, there are a number of factors you should consider, including personal style, intended use, weight, lens speed, cost, etc, etc.

 

There is certainly no "right" or "wrong" answer. Could you help us to help you by telling us a bit more about yourself, your experience, the cameras you have used and been happy with so far, and the sort of pictures you like to take?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[earleygallery]

Hmmmm I suspect you want a Leica because it is a Leica.

 

Please remember that the make of camera you use will not really affect the pictures you take with it. If you are a good photographer you will be able to take good photos with any camera. Don't think by spending lots of money on a Leica that you will suddenly start taking superb photos.

 

Sorry if this is condescending but really, if you don't know which type of camera you need then you possibly aren't ready to take the next step.

 

What do you use at present? Why are you considering a change? What do you want from your new camera?

[kerontide]

Sergi, welcome!

 

I suspect that this will be one of those threads that will both run and run, and lead to some lively debate.

 

In deciding between the two systems, there are a number of factors you should consider, including personal style, intended use, weight, lens speed, cost, etc, etc.

 

There is certainly no "right" or "wrong" answer. Could you help us to help you by telling us a bit more about yourself, your experience, the cameras you have used and been happy with so far, and the sort of pictures you like to take?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Hello Bill, thank's for your answer, my first camera is a Zenit 122, and I like to shoot with b/w film, my second camera is a digital canon G3, and now I have a E-500, I love it, but when I shoot in B/w or procesing a take with PS I don't have the result that I wanted, and think to purchase a camere that I can shoot with a real b/w film.

 

When I looking for a camera I found a M7 or R9 of leica, and I know the leica history. I like to take a portraits pictures, landscape, and street pictures.

 

Regards, Sergi.

[earleygallery]

Well, two of your previous cameras were SLR's and one was a digicam.

 

The Leica M is a rather different camera to use, so I would suggest the R as it will seem more familiar to you, HOWEVER, given that you like to take portrait/street photo's then you should seriously consider the M. It is perfect for street photography as it is more compact, quieter and more unobtrusive than an SLR. With a 50/75 or 90mm lens it also works well as a portrait camera, and you have a good choice of wideangles for landscape.

 

Get yourself down to a dealer who will be patient with you and let you play with both for a while. You may just prefer the feel of the R.

[kerontide]

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Well, two of your previous cameras were SLR's and one was a digicam.

 

The Leica M is a rather different camera to use, so I would suggest the R as it will seem more familiar to you, HOWEVER, given that you like to take portrait/street photo's then you should seriously consider the M. It is perfect for street photography as it is more compact, quieter and more unobtrusive than an SLR. With a 50/75 or 90mm lens it also works well as a portrait camera, and you have a good choice of wideangles for landscape.

 

Get yourself down to a dealer who will be patient with you and let you play with both for a while. You may just prefer the feel of the R.

 

Thanks James.

[Guest umb]

Well, two of your previous cameras were SLR's and one was a digicam.

 

HOWEVER, given that you like to take portrait/street photo's then you should seriously consider the M. It is perfect for street photography as it is more compact, quieter and more unobtrusive than an SLR.

 

I read this again and again but haven't happend yet to make this experience.

 

1) shutter noise is not an issue if you take pictures in lively places, where the sound of your camera is easily drowned by the noise of cars, people etc..

 

2) as a photographer you are obtrusive because you are holding a black box in front of your face, it doesn't matter if this box is a view inches smaller or larger. However, what really makes a difference, is if you can shoot with one hand only, a possibility you ONLY have with auto focus DSRL, where you can operate the camera with one hand.

[bill]

...as a photographer you are obtrusive because you are holding a black box in front of your face, it doesn't matter if this box is a view inches smaller or larger. However, what really makes a difference, is if you can shoot with one hand only, a possibility you ONLY have with auto focus DSRL, where you can operate the camera with one hand.

 

Hmm... I beg to differ. In fact, I would go as far as to say, "nonsense".

 

You are obtrusive because of what you are doing, not because you are "holding a black box in front of your face". The camera is not what draws people's attention to you, it is that you are paying attention to them. Your body language differs from those around you, and the "human animal" therefore reacts to it. Keeping still, raising the camera only when you are going to take a picture - both are good disciplines.

 

And shooting with one hand is far from being the sole domain of the DSLR. I have used my Ms for years one-handed, having pre-focussed. it's actually considerably quicker and more unobtrusive than some large black blob of melted plastic whirring into focus. I'm now using the same techniques with my new IIIc.

 

...have I mentioned my new IIIc...?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest umb]

Your body language differs from those around you, and the "human animal" therefore reacts to it. Keeping still, raising the camera only when you are going to take a picture - both are good disciplines.

 

Couldnt disagree more.

 

Are you telling me that quickly raising a camera - no matter which one - does not differ from the "body language" of people around me, thus drawing their attention?

 

Trying to take pictures "secretly" is exactly what you don't want to do.

 

OTOH I noticed that if you keep the camera in front of your face, making no secret of your intention to photograph, people tend to ignore you after a while.

[thomasw_]

bill...did you get a IIIc? holy socks! what a fine camera....did i mention I have one, too

 

btw, if you are interested in an unobtrusive, small body you might consider an old barnack leica. once you learn how to trim the film leader and insert the cassette and take up spool simultaneously, they are a complete joy to use for available light b/w snaps. if you want a lot of other accessories with your barnack, go ahead but you will miss out on the 'less is more' beauty of the barnack.

 

and a useful and clean barnack body and a ltm lens can be purchased for less than 1000 US; which is splendid bang for the buck:)

[bill]

...I noticed that if you keep the camera in front of your face, making no secret of your intention to photograph, people tend to ignore you after a while.

UMB, we will have to agree to differ on this one. If you keep a camera in front of your face you are doing two things; firstly you are distancing yourself from your surroundings - you are becoming a detached observer rather than an integral part of what is going on. Secondly, you are influencing what you observe; this is "experimental effect". People do not "ignore" the camera when it is pointed at them in an obtrusive manner; rather they behave differently because it is there. If you wish to capture candids, you must either conceal yourself, or blend in. Since a hide is a little impractical on the high street of your average town, I'd still advocate a bit of discretion.

 

Of course there are other factors at work here as well. If you are at a tourist attraction, you are less likely to have people who are bothered by having a camera pointed in their direction, because they are doing the same. If, on the other hand, you are in a tube train crammed with commuters during the evening rush hour you may find people less kindly disposed to your lens. Again, in these circumstances I would far rather be using a small, unobtrusive Leica than an over-automated DSLR.

 

Lastly, how you dress can also influence your "impact". Dress like a displaced war correspondent, in combat jacket and big bag slung over shoulder and you may feel the part, but you will stick out like a sore thumb in many environments. Sling a DSLR over your shoulder wilst wearing your Boss suit and you run the risk of being mistaken for a wedding photographer. Slip a rangefinder in your jacket pocket, pull it out when you want to capture an image, and blend in, and you are more likely to get the shot you want - and deserve.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest umb]

Sling a DSLR over your shoulder wilst wearing your Boss suit and you run the risk of being mistaken for a wedding photographer.

 

I like this one.

Guess I'll give it a try.

Regards,

UMB

[stunsworth]

Nine times out of ten people will realise that you are taking photographs. The trick is to make them feel that this isn't a threat. This is done in several ways IMHO, body language, how you handle the camera etc. As Bill says, how you are dressed can also be an influence.

 

Sometimes on the other hand people _don't_ see you. When this happens it's a great rush. This is one of about 30 frames I took of these girls - I apologise for this being about the 100th time I've posted it :-) - but I never even had a glance in my direction. M6, Nocti in case anyone is interested.

 

 

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[abrewer]

Sling a DSLR over your shoulder whilst wearing your Boss suit and you run the risk of being mistaken for a wedding photographer...

 

Bill

 

LOL!

 

 

That was funny!

 

And that is an absolutely terrific shot with the Noctilux Steve. Thanks for sharing it.

 

Seriously, back to the question at hand...

 

It sounds like an M would be ideal for the kind of shooting you're interested in Sergi.

 

You should try one and see how you like it.

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[earleygallery]

Well, as a long time lllf user I can only agree with the comments above re the LTM Leicas

 

When using mine people sometimes look at it curiously, probably taking pity on me for not being able to afford a digicam but essentially it isn't at all threatening to anyone, in the way that perhaps some people are put on guard by someone with a professional looking SLR and bulky zoom lens. They just assume you are a press photographer or something.

 

I totally agree with Bill re the body language and dress. Many of the most famous photojournalists dressed in such a way as to blend in with the people they were photographing, being accepted as 'one of them' rather than an intruder.

 

Blending into the surroundings, dressed appropriately and operating discretely (not secretively) are all excellent pointers for street photography. I have worked successfully with my SLR but the lllf or M, other compact cameras, or a TLR make excellent street machines!

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[Guest stnami]

... sometimes it doesn't matter

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[kerontide]

stnami it's a good take, and thanks abrewer, the M systems have more point to be mine, but there is only one thing have me in respect, M7 is a telemetric camera and I don't use a camera like this never.

 

I know there is a diference of the reflex system.

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[carstenw]

I have to add my voice to those who think that a big camera is more noticeable than a small one. I don't have years of experience with this, but when using my 5D, I get a lot more looks and reaction than when I use the M6 or M8.

[stuny]

Sergi -

 

Welcome to the forum, and once you get your Leica I hope you will post your photos.

 

The type of photography you intend to do does not requre a choice between SLR or rangefinder, but it probably does require a choice of what you are comfortable using. I'm surprised that nobody has come out and said what I'm about to say, though James Early came close. He suggested that since your experience is with SLRs that you might want to stay with the R9 since it's an SLR. Let's take that one step further. I've owned many cameras, two of which have been Leica rangefinders (CL, IIIf), along with many rangefinders, many SLRs, and even two TLRs. I've always sold my rangefinders to buy SLRs, which reflects nothing more than how I adapt to cameras -- I just can't get used to seeing the world the way good rangfinder photographers do, but I am able to adapt to SLRs. Try both cameras. See if you are able to adapt to rangefinder photography. If not, your choice is clear. If you can adapt, then consider the other suggestions our Forum colleagues have made.