peterb Posted December 28, 2006 Share #1 Posted December 28, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Okay, (and as if the IR issue wasn't enough) now that the M8's been around for a bit and you guys have been swapping out M lenses left and right as you put the camera through its paces, has anyone encountered any dust problems falling on the sensor? Just curious. I was curious about how the M8 is faring under real conditions on one of the dustiest orbs in the solar system. P Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 Hi peterb, Take a look here Give me the real dirt on the M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
canlogic Posted December 28, 2006 Share #2 Posted December 28, 2006 Yes I have had dust but no worse (probably less) than any of my canons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share #3 Posted December 28, 2006 I've only owned the Digilux 2 which is a sealed system. So that's why I've raised the question. While dust has never really been an issue with film, with digital it looks like it could be. That's why I opened the thread. To hear more about this issue from anyone who's experienced it (with the M8 or any other digital camera with interchangeable lenses). Three questions: 1. Does the dust appear as white spots on the images? 2. Is it possible to keep the sensor dust free? 3. How do you clean the sensor without damaging it? Thanks for replying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 28, 2006 Share #4 Posted December 28, 2006 1. Does the dust appear as white spots on the images? 2. Is it possible to keep the sensor dust free? 3. How do you clean the sensor without damaging it? 1. No they're dark since dust stops light falling on the sensor. 2. Not without a sealed system - though some of the ultrasonic vibration sensors may be better in this regard. 3. With a bulb blower Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted December 28, 2006 Share #5 Posted December 28, 2006 Just don't use compressed air in a can. It has lubicants that can screw up the sensor. I use an Arctic Butterfly brush which generaly removes it. If I get some stubborn spots I use sensor swabs and Eclipse formula. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted December 28, 2006 Share #6 Posted December 28, 2006 Peter-- All reasonable questions. Many companies offer solutions to the problem of dust on the sensor. The first step camera manufacturers ask for is a gentle bulb blower as Steve said. And as Tim said, "canned air" runs the risk of blowing chemicals onto the sensor, etching it and causing permanent problems. If the blower doesn't work, there are systems that use cleaning fluid with swabs, others that use static electricity, etc etc. You can download the M8 instruction manual from the Leica website to see Leica's recommendations (p. 128); and you can download the instructions given by the sensor manufacturer by clicking http://www.kodak.com/ezpres/business/ccd/global/plugins/acrobat/en/supportdocs/cleaningCoverGlass.pdf. If you can come up with the 'better way,' the world will beat a path to your door. To see what's already available, google "sensor cleaning." --HC Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 28, 2006 Share #7 Posted December 28, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Same as Tim and, thanks to Rob, I now find out there are sensor swabs which are the correct size. Dust control begins with vacuuming out your camera bag, always using lens and body caps, a blower to keep the lens throat clean, a blower to remove dust from the sensor with sensor swabs/eclipse as a last resort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted December 28, 2006 Share #8 Posted December 28, 2006 I would rig up a sable paint brush to a vacuum extension hose. Glue the head of the brush into a clear plastic hose and hook the other end up to the vacuum cleaner with some sort of adapter - or gaffa tape! Then gently tickle and vacuum the dust off the sensor. A blower brush doesn't suck the dust out of the camera body - it simply repositions it, or blows more in. I don't own a blower brush for this reason. Vacuum is good - just be careful to make sure the suction doesn't pull the vacuum nozzle or brush onto anything delicate, like a lens element or a sensor. :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted December 28, 2006 Share #9 Posted December 28, 2006 I suppose the M8 will get dust on the sensor faster than a DSLR for two reasons: one, the sensor is closer to the outside world when the lens is removed, with only the shutter to separate it from attacking agents. Two, mostly because a DSLR is often used with a zoom, contrary to a rangefinder, thus limiting lens swapping. This is probably why there has been dust spotted on the sensor of newly purchased M8s. Just a theory. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spersky Posted December 28, 2006 Share #10 Posted December 28, 2006 For 5000 thousand dollars, I have seen the M8 and all the reviews, and personally I am shocked that people are still buying that camera until things get fixed. Think about it; this camera is 5000 dollars. I was right along with the rest of everyone until I did a reality check and said woah, "I am about to spend 5k for a camera with multiple bug, no dust or weather sealing, and requires IR filters for most situations (even nature shots), and will likley be upgraded by Leica to an M9 in at least a year. On a side note I really do understand why every loves the Leica M system. It really pains me to complain about Leica in general because their lenses are just so amazing. I have found similar results however with extreme pain by lugging around my one ton brick called the Canon 1Ds Mark2. P.S. I have seen some awsome picture from Leica M8 users. Pictures that want to make me go out and get the camera. However, when I do a reality check I realize that for 5k the camera is to flawed to be used effectively in many situations that is was intended. I understand that this post will seriously piss off many Leica fans out there who want to justify that huge purchase. Disclaimer: I do not own a Leica M8. I have done a ton of research and cancelled my order for the Leica M8. I just want to provide a moment of pause before people pay 5k for a camera in beta testing phase. This digital M8 is not like the M7 that will last forever, in about a year the price of that camera will likely plument as Leica fixes the IR sensor problem with a revise camera. That is a long term deal breaker for the longevity of this camera. Regards, Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted December 28, 2006 Share #11 Posted December 28, 2006 Stephen-- Did you read the original post? The title "Give me the real dirt on the M8" is a pun, and your post is rather off topic. It's interesting to hear your opinion; you simply give different weights to the issues involved than some other people. --HC Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spersky Posted December 28, 2006 Share #12 Posted December 28, 2006 When you meant dirt I thought that oyu meant the real "down low". The real "nitty gritty". The "real Deal". Did not mean to hijak the thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Campbell Posted December 28, 2006 Share #13 Posted December 28, 2006 Just don't use compressed air in a can. It has lubicants that can screw up the sensor. I use an Arctic Butterfly brush which generaly removes it. If I get some stubborn spots I use sensor swabs and Eclipse formula. The Eclipse formula is pure ethyl alcohol, I believe, so when you use it with sensor swabs you are following Kodak's recommendation. I assume that the new camera arrives with a dirty sensor (Canon has never disappointed me on this and now Leica hasn't either). Gentle blow off, followed by sensor swab, followed by Arctic Butterfly. Repeat this several times. It's never perfect - I stop when I get it down to 4 or 5 spots. For the digital newby this is tough because cleaning techniques that involve touching the cover glass fly in the face of Leica's (and Canon's) recommendations. But the alternative is to live with dust. In the Canon world most people who send their cameras in for sensor cleaning get them back as dusty as when they left, so self-help is essential. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted December 28, 2006 Share #14 Posted December 28, 2006 Stephen, I had a dust problem, cleaned the sensor, now it's fine. Today I really put it through the paces (first time out) taking pictures in the midst of Santa Ana Winds (see Taking the M8 Plunge). I've had similar issues as you express, and I still think Leica handled the release of this new camera in a less than admirable manner, but yesterday I decided to buy one, and as luck would have it, I found one. It was mostly the pictures on this forum that convinced me to go for it. Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera Photography Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted December 28, 2006 Share #15 Posted December 28, 2006 Stephen, I had a dust problem, cleaned the sensor, now it's fine. Today I really put it through the paces (first time out) taking pictures in the midst of Santa Ana Winds (see Taking the M8 Plunge). I've had similar issues as you express, and I still think Leica handled the release of this new camera in a less than admirable manner, but yesterday I decided to buy one, and as luck would have it, I found one. It was mostly the pictures on this forum that convinced me to go for it. Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera Photography is it me, or is anyone else thinking.......huh ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielt Posted December 28, 2006 Share #16 Posted December 28, 2006 I use an Arctic Butterfly brush + sensor swaps with one drop of metanol if neccessary Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asher Kelman Posted December 28, 2006 Share #17 Posted December 28, 2006 There is no practical dust issue with the M8 unless you have a general aversion to cameras with removable lenses. This happens with film as dust needing spotting and now with digital. I hardly ever use the smallest apertures since I want the resolution. If one is shooting with apertures f2-f8 then most dust will not be seen. I clean sensors about once a month or if I am going to be needing to stop down. I vacuum out the camera bag. I use the rocket blower on the back of the lens before mounting it if there's any sign of dust. I keep the camera facing down and remove the lens and cap it and insert the new lens without delay. Dust will occur but should be less than with the DSLR which has all the mirror parts as well as the shutter. All part contribute to dust! It's not only stuff from outside! Cleaning the sensor with an activate sensor brush is easy. Get an Arctic butterfly or similar and with a few swipes the sensor is clean. The M8 to my knowledge has no special dirt problems that other cameras with removal lenses don't have. So the decison on buying an M8 is nothing to do with sensor dirt. Getting an M8 has to do with needing it based on one's style of photography and the care one is willing to invest in being a good photographer. The complaints that have been raised during the M8 appearance are valid but IMHO have little effect on the artistic photographer who wants the M8 for what it can do. The dust question is a non-issue! The same solution applies to all such cameras. I can assure you that thew M8 is a joy to use! Asher Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asher Kelman Posted December 28, 2006 Share #18 Posted December 28, 2006 There is no practical dust issue with the M8 unless you have a general aversion to cameras with removable lenses. This happens with film as dust needing spotting and now with digital. I hardly ever use the smallest apertures since I want the resolution. If one is shooting with apertures f2-f8 then most dust will not be seen. I clean sensors about once a month or if I am going to be needing to stop down. I vacuum out the camera bag. I use the rocket blower on the back of the lens before mounting it if there's any sign of dust. I keep the camera facing down and remove the lens and cap it and insert the new lens without delay. Dust will occur but should be less than with the DSLR which has all the mirror parts as well as the shutter. All part contribute to dust! It's not only stuff from outside! Cleaning the sensor with an activate sensor brush is easy. Get an Arctic butterfly or similar and with a few swipes the sensor is clean. The M8 to my knowledge has no special dirt problems that other cameras with removal lenses don't have. So the decison on buying an M8 is nothing to do with sensor dirt. Getting an M8 has to do with needing it based on one's style of photography and the care one is willing to invest in being a good photographer. The complaints that have been raised during the M8 appearance are valid but IMHO have little effect on the artistic photographer who wants the M8 for what it can do. The dust question is a non-issue! The same solution applies to all such cameras. I can assure you that thew M8 is a joy to use! Asher The Open Photography Forums Initiative Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 28, 2006 Share #19 Posted December 28, 2006 I refer to the big hole theory. Just like any DSLR out there that takes interchangable lenses. But the M8 is very easy to clean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spersky Posted December 28, 2006 Share #20 Posted December 28, 2006 Wilfredo, I saw those pictures, they where very nice. Made me even think for a minute. Hey I sure would like to have that camera. Regards, Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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