How is the M8 measuring up to your Criteria?

[mitchell]

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I use a diopter on the M8 and R9. I take my glasses off. It's a bit of a hassel because I have two sets of glasses, far and near. (I don't think I'd like grad. focal glasses.)

 

But, it's worth to me to see the image clearly in the veiwfinder.l

 

Best,

 

Mitchell

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[blakley]

I use the diopter on my M8 because I use mostly longer focal lengths (35 is about the widest I use regularly with it) and I get easier focusing with the diopter. It's perfect when used with a 50 or 75mm on the M8.

[jaapv]

For longer focal lengths the Okular 1.25 is indispensable for old fogies like me.

[mwilliamsphotography]

I'm far sighted but need just a bit for seeing in the distance. So, it close up that's a problem. The diopter I now use is a +1.5

 

The wierd thing is that with digital I need to have my reading glasses hanging around my neck so I can adjust the menu controls and see the LCD playback. I ruin glasses at a ferocious rate by taking them on and off ... and catching them on stuff.

[spersky]

Marc,

 

I am far sighted too. I have been considering Lasik. However, I am afraid of the idea for some reason. Especially, if something goes wrong. I use the diopters too and go through about 1 pair of glasses every 1-2 years. I am sure it will only get worse as I get older.

[ulphoto]

Re: diopter correction, I have tri-focals (like I said old eyes) and find that when focusing on close subjects, under 5 feet away, that the scene is a bit fuzzy since I'm using the distance part of my glasses - would a diopter correction lens help with this problem? I can't be taking my glasses off for shooting - and its difficullt to use the middle distance part of my tri-focals so maybe the diopter would help. Speaking of tri-focals - the 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar (with a 30% discount) is looking very appealing since most of my work with the M-8 is up close - I am finding the 21mm cum 28mm is a very nice lens for my work.

bob LaPree

[arthury]

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Marc,

 

I am far sighted too. I have been considering Lasik. However, I am afraid of the idea for some reason. Especially, if something goes wrong. I use the diopters too and go through about 1 pair of glasses every 1-2 years. I am sure it will only get worse as I get older.

 

Just make sure your ophthalmologist doing your Lasik is not Leica-trained or all you see is magenta.

Please add this one to the list of magenta jokes. Thank you!

[fotografr]

This is all very interesting and some of the examples posted here are as good as anything I've seen come out of a digital camera. I only wish I could participate in the discussion, but because I have chosen to hold out for a black M8, I still don't have one.

 

So, I'll just continue to sit here on the sidelines dreaming about what shoots I might have been able to use the M8 on and wondering how much better they would look than what I get from my Canon 5D. I have a magazine shoot next week that would have been perfect for the M8 but it's not to be. I'm tempted to start swearing now, so will just sign off instead.

 

Cheers,

[carstenw]

I have both 5D and M8, and I would not say that there is a large difference in image quality. The 5D holds the edge at the moment due to all the little M8 issues. Eventually, I expect that to flip around, but image quality I don't think would ever be the primary reason for a 5D-to-M8 swap.

[fotografr]

I have both 5D and M8, and I would not say that there is a large difference in image quality. The 5D holds the edge at the moment due to all the little M8 issues. Eventually, I expect that to flip around, but image quality I don't think would ever be the primary reason for a 5D-to-M8 swap.

 

I don't think I'd ever do a swap either. There are certain kinds of shoots, like those requiring long lenses, where the M8 won't do. The one huge difference for me is having the ability to use my M glass on a digital camera.

[neila]

I think it will measure up to my criteria - perhaps too early to tell.

 

Please bear in mind that I'm only an amateur....

 

My first Leica was an MP and I was knocked out by the almost luminous, 3D quality of the photographs, the depth of field in particular was a great surprise! Then I bought an RD-1 which I liked, but never loved. And yesterday I collected the M8. I think it's going to meet my criteria of a 'familiar' camera to work with and one that does justice to the Leica lenses that I have.

 

The other point of ownership I like, is that some seriously good photographers use it! I'll expand a little.... I am a keen golfer (9 handicap) and I use clubs that suit me AND are used by some pro's. It makes me feel that anything is achievable. That may sound silly, but it gives me a push to achieve more. For example....

 

Marc's last shot of his son (?) playing his computer game (on a Nintendo DS - I know because my daughter had one for Christmas). Marc has the same equipment I do, except he has talent - but I can try, it spurs me on to know what's possible. I can't blame the equipment.

 

Does that make sense?

 

The downside is that I rarely post here as so many here are just in a different league of knowledge and skill!

[geoffsm]

I picked mine up yesterday (I'd been on a list for a black one for weeks and weeks and then a silver body fell into my lap; within about an hour, the deed was done . Can't stop shooting it. The sharpness is quite striking coming from the 5D (with 50/1.4 and 85/1.8 primarily). And compared to my M6, at equivalent ISOs of 800 and 1600, I'm seeing more sharpness and less grain than I ever did with Tri-X or TMY pushed a stop, or with Fuji NP1600 (or Delta 3200 @ 1600) -- amazing! The color, especially under household tungsten, definitely needs work but Jamie Roberts' profiles are a very nice stop-gap in the meantime (thanks, Jamie). I registered for filters today, an E46 for my pre-aspherical 50mm Summilux (which will work on my V/C 28mm Ultron as well, apparently) and an E39 for my 35 f/2 Cron ASPH and ancient 1st version Summicron 50.

 

I'm loving shooting b&w w/o filters for now though. It provides some nice tonal seperation I'm not used to seeing, especially in the darks. This, in conjunction with the new emulsion-specific JFI profiles in C1 (I like their HP5), is giving me some cracking black and white that I'll have no problem submitting to the newspapers I shoot for. I'm ecstatic, really. Sure, holding out for a black one would have been the patient, adult thing to do but I just couldn't wait any longer! I keep telling myself that since my M6 is black, I'll always know at a glance which is the digital body . Plus, since most of my lenses are black, and I've migrated the 1.25x magnifier and Abrahamson softie from my M6 (both black), I've got kind of a "panda" thing going on.

 

I still can't quite believe that I've got an M Leica with 1/8000th top shutter speed, 1/250th flash sync and autoexposure to boot. It's pretty compelling. Those on the fence about whether to get one or not should think seriously about these features (the whole digital thing aside, almost). IMO, it's really amazing to "have it all" in this form factor with this lens mount. Together, they remove almost all the objections that would come up when I'd want to use my M6 for a particular gig or project (still need the 5D for macro, extreme telephoto and zooms). The image quality puts all but the best film scans to shame (and there aren't many assignments, for me at least, where someone's willing to pick up the tab for drum scans). Yes, the price is a bit steep but if you have a pile of M glass the first 48 hours are pure heaven as you rediscover each one on the camera. I was _shocked_ how sharp my 1st version Summicron from 1953 is wide open at 1 meter on the M8. Time to tape this bad boy up so it won't accidentally collapse into the body, I think it's going to be spending a lot of time on the camera.

 

What I'm on the fence about is the longer focal lengths. I currently have a 90mm F/2 (late pre-aspherical) Summicron, but I'm thinking a 75 would be more practical. I do like the (pretty extreme) compression I'm seeing with the 90 but the framing is tight in realtion to the size of the rangefinder patch, so it's hard to focus at f/2. Subject distance is good though. Can't decide. If I do decide to change, then it's the (now eternal) question: 75mm f/2 Cron APO-ASPH or the venerable (but even harder to focus wide open) 75 f/1.4 Summilux? I have the pre-ASPH Summilux 50 for that dreamy wide open look, so maybe the modern 75 Cron is the way to go.

 

Anyway, I'm very happy I took the plunge. The M8 already feels more personal and at home in my hands than, e.g., a 5D. Looks a bit weird on a tripod with a pocket wizard in the shoe, but when you download the files, the tale is told. Also haven't seen the need for filters with strobes yet -- nor have I experienced any other of the nascent bugaboos that others have encountered -- colors look great, dynamic range is there in spades, highlight detail holds well. I can't find much to complain about...

 

OK, a few things (but they're nits). Having to remove the bottom panel to access the card as often as one ends up doing on this camera is tedious (I never minded doing it on the film bodies for whatever reason). Punching through the AE lock shutter detent feels weird (I'm sure I'll get used to it). Having to press the SET button twice when you choose a new ISO is lame (as others have noted, everything on the SET menu should be single-action). It doesn't feel quite as responsive as some other digital cameras I've used when it's doing heavy I/O to the card (but I'm using a mid-range Sandisk Ultra II 2GB card, I'm hoping this will improve with an Extreme III card which I'll be purchasing asap). The power/drive collar around the shutter button has a plasticky feel in comparison with the same part on the M7. I'd say the same thing about the shutter speed dial but, never having owned an M7 or TTL, I'm still getting used to winding it the opposite way for shorter shutter speeds. I do like that they've moved it inboard fom where it was on the TTL though, I was always afraid I'd inadvertantly cover the rangefinder window with my finger when changing shutter speeds (part of the reason why I never bought one). But really, these are minor, personal things. Overall the camera gets out of your way and gives you a very pure photographic experience.

 

I have to salute Leica for bringing this product to market. It's a digital camera with soul, and there have been very, very few of those so far. I also have to salute the heavy lifters here on the forum for doing so much, both ad hoc and in communicating with Leica, to work through the early issues so that folks like me can have a product that works as well as possible. And it will only get better from here. Thanks all!

 

Best,

--Geoff

[marknorton]

Geoff, you're clearly on a high and I'm pleased you're enjoying it. Hope the honeymoon period lasts for you, I'm becoming increasingly disenchanted by the whole sorry business.

 

The shutter speed dial is metal but underneath it's just a 44 position rotary shaft encoder, similar to the same item on a Digilux 2 with modified detents and I expect it's sourced from the same supplier too.

 

I agree with you about the shutter release action, hardly a tactile masterpiece which stems from the fact that it's really just a couple of switches, not the silky mechanical action we'd all prefer. I have a Mercedes with "brake by wire" where they try to recreate the feel of the brake pedal with a couple of springs and a pyramid-shaped rubber bung. It doesn't work there, either.

 

I also agree with you about the need to remove the base; I'd find it better if I was able to dock the camera for recharging and card downloading without removing the base which would reduce the need to remove the base to times when the battery and/or card runs out in the middle of a shoot. I don't think there are any fans of the USB connector here.

[geoffsm]

Mark -- thanks for reading. After I posted my impressions, I had a look at how long it ended up being and winced (brevity, concision no these aren't my strong points).

 

I don't mean to give the impression that the 'nits' I listed interfere overly with using the camera. For example, with respect to the bottom cover thing, I think in the beginning I'm in a rush to set something up, shoot it and see the results as soon as possible so I can keep the feedback loop short and refine things. As such, I think the frequency with which the bottom cover will need to be removed will go down as I can better predict the camera's results over time.

 

Agree with you about the "brake by wire" implementation on late model Mercedes . What I think is even worse is the "brake assist" function where, when you step on the brakes hard/suddenly, all the pressure goes from the pedal and the computer turns the brakes full on, exactly the opposite of what I would expect in terms of feel ("no pressure! the lines are empty!" as you're thrown forward and ABS starts chattering).

[jaapv]

Whilst I really do agree with Mark on both the feel of the speed dial and the shutter button, although I coudn't care less what the put in the body as long as it works flawlessly, I would like to add the Digilux 2 covering used and don't agree with the "denouncement" of the bottom plate. We old M users are so used to this that we have grooves eroded into our front teeth from holding bottom plates and would not do without it. Seriously, exactly this is part of the appeal of the camera for some. I think the critique of this part will abate as soon as Leica brings out a battery pack that clicks under the camera. My main grumble with the camera is that I cannot run it directly off the battery-charger. But on the whole I think these things can be classed as minor niggles.

[larry]

Jaap,

 

You're exactly right, the M8 is an M -- it's old and new at the same time. Leica has done a masterful job of taking a 54-year-old design that worked very well and given it a technology transplant. If the M8 didn't incorporate the features we've come to expect from an M, it would simply be just another digital camera in a sea of wannabes.

 

Larry

[lars_bergquist]

I use a diopter on the M8 and R9. I take my glasses off. It's a bit of a hassel because I have two sets of glasses, far and near. (I don't think I'd like grad. focal glasses.)

 

But, it's worth to me to see the image clearly in the veiwfinder.l

 

Best,

 

Mitchell

 

Hello, Mitchell. I have a couple of M's with .72X finders and 28 mm frames. I also have a pair of badly presbyopic (farsighted) eyes. I tried a diopter but found that being half-blind except when looking though the finder was not combat-worthy -- especially when trying to read a Leicameter! So I live with the fact that I have to part-guess the 28 mm frame. No issue with the M8 I'm waiting for, as the outermost frame there is 24 mm, which I don't care for at all.

 

My working glasses however are graduated. They took some initial getting used to, but are well worth it. It does quickly became a matter of instinct which part of the lens you should use for looking at the rangefinder, which then is crystal clear. I would not go back to either the two-spec system or bifocals for anything. You should really give graduated lenses a try.

 

The old man from the Age of the Pincenez

[arthury]

At ISO 1250 in the shade seems to work well ... quite impressed ... 50mm Summicron-M; f/2

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[arthury]

And, with SF-20 ...

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[bnelson]

Lars...

 

Do you have any trouble focussing with the graduated lens glasses? Are you using the +1.25 Magnifier?

 

Bill