How is the M8 measuring up to your Criteria?

[mwilliamsphotography]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

By now, we all know the flaws. With the help of many on this forum, solutions have been figured out for some issues, and we await Leica's solutions to the remainder.

 

It'll never be perfect. IMO, there's no such thing.

 

But I was curious as to how it stacks up against your needs. Obviously more a question for those using the camera, than those speculating without any hands-on experience. I say that because what may be an issue for some may not be for others, and some folks have more advanced digital processing skills than others.

 

Phase One's C-1 is a new program for me. The LE version convinced me to purchase the C-1 Pro version. I've found that it takes time to get he most out of a new digital processing program no matter how experienced you are. I'm also exploring Adobe Lightroom more deeply than before because it offers ACR type adjustments for Tiff and Jpg files.

 

As far as the camera is concerned, it's met most of my criteria ... and hopefully will do so even more once I send it in for the "hardware fix".

 

Read on and compare my criteria to yours, or just skip to posting your evaluation now you've used the camera.

 

My criteria is:

 

1) a smaller camera with enough image quality to use at weddings as a relief from carrying around a DSLR ... while providing an extension to the rangefinder experience I am already familiar with.

 

Size/weight are not small issues when you are on your feet for 8 hours straight ... sometimes half of that on the move at a brusque pace. The rangefinder technique is important to me as it has yeilded results that differ from those I get from a DSLR. Obviously, that's a personal creative observation, not a scientific one. Each craftsman/artist has their favorite tools ... a rangefinder is one of mine.

 

Image quality requirements are subjective, but for me it means: can I crop (sometimes severely), straighten and enlarge to 8X10 for album prints? ... and not have it appear of obviously lesser quality than work from my 1DsMKII also appearing in the album. The answer so far is that it meets that criteria.

 

This evaluation is based on my already established habit of working in the ISO 400 to 800 area with my Canons. The M8's ISO 640 is perfect for my needs, and is an improvement over my usual film ISO 400 rated at 320 when using my M7. The M8's ISO 1250 is usable IF I don't push it or crop it much. IMO, 2500 isn't, but may be better with later software improvements. Both Leaf and Imacon software updates just increased the quality of their highest ISOs ... the ISO 800 of the Leaf Aptus 75 went from marginal to very good ... however, while it's proof that software improvements can improve ISO performance, it's not a guarantee that it will with every camera. We'll see.

 

2) Can I control this camera fast enough for wedding work? At first I wondered about that. Having to access some critical controls through the menu was questionable. The only one that I now think was ill conceived is the exposure compensation when using AE. The remainder has proven to be no problem. In fact, for my Mr. Magoo eyes at a dark wedding reception, the large, bright LCD menu is a plus over the tiny LCD read outs and unlit multi-button requirements of the Canon 1DsMKII. It takes a bit of practice to remember to hit the M8 SET button after selecting a different ISO or Color Temperature, but that becomes an ingrained habit pretty fast.

 

3) What criteria has been exceeded?

 

For me it's the better distortion control from the M wide angles compared to those from Canon. This is also no small issue when shooting hundreds of wedding images with horizontal and vertical straight edges in them. Correcting barrel distortion in 100 photos is time consuming and irritating. Not an issue for street shooting, BIG issue for wedding work IMO.

 

I also suspected I would get a "different look" over-all. I like the look of film, and like other CCD cameras I've used, the M8 work is less plastic looking and closer in feel to the look of film.

 

Conclusions to date:

 

I continue to explore the M8 for wedding applications by shooting non-wedding stuff in similar lighting and people situations, and evaluating the results. While I have used the M8 for wedding work, I've kept it to non-essential stuff, or shot back-ups with the highly proven Canons. As my command of the M8 improves, and hopefully the teething issues are resolved by Leica, I can rely on it more to create the type of images I have gotten in past with my film Ms ... which is more about the rangefinder experience verses a DSLR, than it is about film verses digital.

 

Here are a few shots from yesterday's Christmas visit where I practiced using the 75 Lux and 24 ASPH in low light using ISO 640 and 1250, (with some shutter speeds I shouldn't have even tried : -) That's my dad right after the big Christmas feast; and my Niece with her long suffering pet named "Nacho". Family snaps, some at 1/30th using the 75, but good practice for the real thing ...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[egibaud]

great shots!!!!

 

what lense do you own?

If you had to chose between a 50mm and a 75mm which one would you pick and why?

 

Thanks and Merry Xmas

[Peter41951]

Marc, the first and last shots particularly are hugely more than snaps! I wish my snaps were as interesting and well taken as yours.

[bnelson]

Marc...

 

Great observations on initial use of the M8. Also great photos. Focus right on.

 

Bill

[tom0511]

It measures up to my criteria as follows (so far after 3 days which is not much):

-IQ:

I got some images which have a great tonality. Specially in B&W but some also in color.

The images are clear, as you said have a non-digital but natural look.

I use 486 filters and did not find anything bad about it besides the cyan corners when shooting the24mm.

Regarding the colors I downloaded Jamies profiles which I like better than the C1-original ones.

I find ISO 640 to deliever exceptional IQ, 1250 usable IQ so I try to not go higher than 640 if I can.

 

-user interface:

I really like Ms from using my M6 for long time. So I also really like the M8.

Some things I like better when using the M6:

-lower shutter noice

-thinner body

-feel of the trigger

So here it meets my criteria maybe 90%, not 100%.

 

-others:

Weather sealing would have been nice.

 

Overall I am happy with the camera. Finally a digital M.

[spersky]

Really nice shots. Based on what I have seen of your photography, I think you would make stellar shots with a disposable camera.

 

In addition, nice objective evaluation.

[ptomsu]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Great shots and great feedback on your experiences so far.

 

Thanks

 

Peter

[jaapv]

I wish I had the ability to reach the quality you display- But yes- the M8 is everything I expected- and more.

[innerimager]

Wonderful stuff Marc. You're wedding clients are going to benefit from this I am quite sure! And...that 75 lux is gorgeous. I think that's where my 30% discount will go (or the 75/2.0)

best.....Peter

[jaapv]

Wonderful stuff Marc. You're wedding clients are going to benefit from this I am quite sure! And...that 75 lux is gorgeous. I think that's where my 30% discount will go (or the 75/2.0)

best.....Peter

Not just for portraits, Peter. I took this just now, Summilux 75 @ 1.4, 1/30th 1250 ISO

(Btw we all know the M8 is not suitable for night photography )

[mwilliamsphotography]

Thomas, I have similar observations about the camera compared to my other M cameras.

I love the process of advancing the film, and sometimes hunt for the winding lever on the M8 : -)

 

I really hope that ISO 2500 can be made more viable on this camera, and 1250 can be improved. Available light is really important to me, and I'd like to avoid flash as much as possible. I've used a touch of flash with the film Ms when shooting B&W in really low light conditions, but flash with this digital M seems harsher ... maybe because B&W film has a greater exposure latitude or something?

 

Grabbing focus with kids is easy even with a 75/1.4 ... just give them a videogame : -)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[innerimager]

yeah, just awful, Marc, totally useless. ;>). Being able to handhold the M8 at such slower shutter speeds than the DSLR world allows sure helps! thanks for posting all these images......Peter

[blovitch]

The video game technique works with Grandparents too. (R9 film scan)

 

Alas my M8s are at Solms at the moment......

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[AlanG]

Not just for portraits, Peter. I took this just now, Summilux 75 @ 1.4, 1/30th 1250 ISO

(Btw we all know the M8 is not suitable for night photography )

 

Sorry, but that is a rather unfortunate example as it is full of highlight bands. I presume your camera has not been fixed for this issue.

[robsteve]

Sorry, but that is a rather unfortunate example as it is full of highlight bands. I presume your camera has not been fixed for this issue.

 

Alan:

 

It is only there because you are looking for it. The main point of interest, the lady walking, is rendered without problems.

[jaapv]

Sorry, but that is a rather unfortunate example as it is full of highlight bands. I presume your camera has not been fixed for this issue.

 

What you think is a highlight band is, imo, the corner of the building. And it was about the lens, not the camera. My camera goes to Solms next week btw.

[jonoslack]

Hi Marc

Unlike you, I was new to the rangefinder experience (I shot an M6ttl for a month, and an Epson Rd1 for a few weeks before the M8 arrived). I have been shooting dSLR cameras for a few years, and slr 35mm cameras for too many years before that.

 

What I wanted was:

 

1. a light bag for carrying whilst walking and travelling.

2. a small(ish) camera which would render foliage properly in landscape shots

3. a camera without mirror slap, allowing shooting landscape without a tripod

4. a kick up the backside to get me thinking again (it was all getting a bit easy).

 

The M8 has certainly fulfilled all these criteria - of course, some of it is a funtion of the wonderful lenses rather than the M8 itself.

 

As for the IR issue - for most of my landscape work, then I don't feel it to be necessary - I'm getting colour I like, and I've learned to live with the dodgy Auto white balance. I'm getting IR filters for my tri-elmar, and for the 50mm 'cron, but I'm pretty sure I'll carry on shooting wide angle landscapes without a filter.

 

I've seen the arguments about the IR levels affecting the colour in all circumstances, but I'm getting much better colour from the M8 in landscape situations than I ever managed from Nikon RAW files, and as a veteran of the Kodak 14n and the magenta cyan shifts, I think I'd rather deal with IR pollution than cyan shifts for landscape.

 

It's certainly given me a kick up the backside, I've started taking photos in pubs and at dinner parties and in the kitchen at mealtime (irritating the family even more than usual).

I've even started enjoying low-light shooting (your 75mm lux is currently my favorite for the 30% rebate).

 

I'm not sure how I'm going to survive for a fortnight when my M8 goes off to Solms

 

Happy New Year

[AlanG]

Alan:

 

It is only there because you are looking for it. The main point of interest, the lady walking, is rendered without problems.

 

No it is only there because it is there. It was obvious to me the first second I saw it. Besides, it was posted as an example of how well that specific camera works for night shots. And yes I can be a very very critical person when it comes to assessing my own photographs too. (Sometimes I have a hard time reaching my own standards.) Dusk and night shots are one of my specialties. I often photograph cityscapes and nightlife for ad agencies who hire me to show why you might want to buy a condo or a house in a certain city or neighborhood. (I've linked to a photo below that illustrates a typical view from a condo under construction.)

 

Download the picture of the woman walking at night and open it up a little by moving the highlight and mid tone slider some. That will make many lines from the various lights more obvious. I did this because in my opinion, the picture is too dark. I didn't want to post this adjusted file as it is not my photograph. I shoot lots of night shots and prefer them more open.

 

With digital capture, even night shots can be rendered with more shadow detail and color than I used to get with film. Almost all of the M8 night shots (and many dusk and night shots from other cameras) that I have seen posted are too dark for my taste and what my clients would want. I don't think this is due to the M8 but simply a result of how most people are shooting and converting. This is the look I'm going after in dusk shots: (I'll be sold when I see M8 dusk shots that have this more open look without banded highlights or other issues.)

 

http://www.goldsteinphoto.com/Tampa.jpg

 

Please, I'm not really a bad guy. I think some of the photos that Marc posted really show what the camera can do. Especially the good skin tones that he gets. (I haven't seen many others who are getting such good skin tones.) I've seen other shots from the M8 that look very good too. But let's not close our eyes...

 

As far as the light streaks and other problems go, people say that these problems go away after the camera is "fixed." So am I being so negative in pointing out that using an "unfixed" camera as a demonstration for this kind of photography is not really a good idea?

[gdewitt]

My feelings are not very different from those of jonoslack.

 

I learned photography as a kid with several rangefinders and studied it in school using RFs, SLRs, press cameras and view cameras. After a brief flirtation with Canon SLRs from '75-'77 I bought a Nikon FM as soon as it was available and shot with a variety of Nikons for many, many years. In recent years I spent most of my time with a view camera.

 

But my problem was film. Those big transparencies looked great on my light table but I could never get a decent scan. I wanted a digital camera. But until the M8 there was not a single digital camera on the market that I liked. MF backs on view cameras are close, but I also want to be able to carry it and, though I can afford that solution it isn't really how I want to spend my money.

 

My "serious" photography is landscapes. I spend lots of time hiking in various mountain ranges and want to carry something light. Formerly that was a Nikon FM or a motorless F3 with 24/2.8 and 85/2 Nikkors. As my activities have changed a bit, so have my focal length choices. So now my lightweight two-lens kit for my M8 is a 28/2.8 and a 75/2. When I'm closer to the car I carry a four-lens kit of 15/4.5 CV, 28/2.8, 50/2 and 90/2. Then there's the 35/2 and the 135/2.8 that I have bought that I'm going to experiment with. And when Zeiss comes out with their 18/4 ZM I think I'll get one of those, too.

 

Unlike most of the rest of you, my background is not with RF cameras, though I used them a fair amount long, long ago. I'm used to looking at ground glass, either in an SLR or under a cloth on my view camera. So the RF thing is taking some getting used to. Not because of framelines or focusing or anything other than the fact that the wider-angle framelines are so hard to use with glasses. I'm also having to adapt to a digital workflow, something I've only done with vacation snapshots in the past or with scanned film.

 

Now, after all this, does it meet my expectations? Other than the difficulty I'm having readapting to RF, I am extremely happy with my M8. IQ with my photography, at low ISO in daylight on a tripod, is outstanding. I have yet to have any IR-related color issues in landscape photography, though I have certainly encountered them with people shots. But the latter, for me, is just for travel, nothing serious, and so I don't care about having to use filters.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[robsteve]

With digital capture, even night shots can be rendered with more shadow detail and color than I used to get with film. Almost all of the M8 night shots (and many dusk and night shots from other cameras) that I have seen posted are too dark for my taste and what my clients would want. I don't think this is due to the M8 but simply a result of how most people are shooting and converting. This is the look I'm going after in dusk shots: (I'll be sold when I see M8 dusk shots that have this more open look without banded highlights or other issues.)

 

http://www.goldsteinphoto.com/Tampa.jpg

 

 

Allan:

 

You might want to try a DMR if you cannot wait on the M8 to get repaired. The DMR does not have any of the problems with night scenes and bright lights.

 

Robert