Name this car....

[Rona!d]

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vor einer Stunde schrieb NigelG:

I wonder if there are now more than one? This is liveried differently to the original 72 RAC car as run...but registered the same 🤔

https://www.motorsport.com/vintage/photos/roy-cathcart-1972-ford-escort-mk1-rs1600-ex-roger-1/703584/

I was a rather young boy when I saw them come past 😀

That needs to be examined. There should be papers. The car was owned by Ford in 1972.

Roy Cathcart drove an "LVX 942J" at the Ulster Rallye in 1976 (I think Ford had a MkII 1800 there). He was one of the early private owners after Ford sold it. Back then in 1976 it had a "neutral" painting without sponsor stickers and a darker (empty) side stripe.

In your link it showed up in 2008 at Goodwood still linked with Carthcarts name. Maybe it had been sold to Northern Ireland later where it got restored and the original painting/stickers. Cannot exclude several recreations though. At least we see the original crew driving LVX 942J in the most detailed sticker glory in the linked video and it seems both were very enthusiastic driving it.

I found the follow up, the 1973 works car from the African Rallye but that wasn´t that famous in GB. (That had been restored and auctioned a while ago but looks completely different and was a different car).

[Rona!d]

OK, now I may got it. I think my video car (with old Clark) and your linked Carthcart´s car (Goodwood) could be the same (edit: It is NOT, see next posting)

Here the history of LVX 942J:

Ex-Ford Escort works guru Dave Watkins and a "co-owner" bought the car a couple of years ago from the estate of late Roy Carthcart in Northern Ireland. Watkins restored the car during "lockdown" for future competitive use and refitted it with modern safety equipment. Watkins has taken the car back to it´s glorious 1972 design (Esso livery) like the presented "replica" in my video above.

The owner gap after Ford is closed now:

1st body shell in 1971 (Safari Rallye), Ford works ownership

2nd body shell 1972 and 1973 (Clark, both years british champion), Ford works ownership

3rd body shell after Adrian Boyds crash at the RAC Rallye, Ford works ownership

Adrian Boyd bought the car in 1973 from Ford (1.000 BRP as Tony Mason said), 2nd owner.

Carthcart bought the car from Boyd in early 1975, raced it until the late 1970s and then occasionally drove it at events like Goodwood with the 1973 design he put on it when it was a classic car because that was the design he saw the car first. 3rd owner.

Watkins and "co-owner". 4th owner.

We will see the car racing in competitions this year, the retirement time of a sleeping legend is over. Back to active service.

 

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[robert_parker]

I spent a little time with Roger Clark, going round a banked track near Milton Keynes, a few years before he died, in an unrestricted Audi sports Estate - at one point someone else in the car asked him what sot of oil pressure the car ran to maintain the speed, which I think was around 170mph, so he popped on his reading glasses from his pocket, tapped the gauge and confirmed the reading.... I remember the smile and the mischievous twinkle in his eye at the end of the ride...

Edited January 26, 2022 by robert_parker

[Rona!d]

The (Top Gear) videos „reunited“ car IS an exact replica because when the video was made in the 1990s with Clark driving it Carthcart still had his car (we can assume being the original) in a different design (like 1973). On both cars the stickers were recreations.

The history of Carthcarts car is without a gap. Because of the change of body shells we cannot be sure if the old shells (espcially #2) were possibly saved from scrap and being repaired later, so another proud owner can claim having "LVX 942J". The cars registration LVX 942J can only exist 1x for street legal use but 100+ copies for non-official use possible which are only street legal with another registration. The copies can be used on non public roads (events on private ground etc.)

Not easy with iconic cars 😉

[wlaidlaw]

The bodyshells on these Mk.1 Escorts were somewhat fragile and also at that time, they did not use, as today, the heavy gauge  multi-tube welded in roll cages, that in effect form an internal space frame, probably doubling the torsional rigidity of the body shell. When I first retrieved my 911 from the scrap yard in California in 2009, it had 1.25 inch aluminium alloy tubing roll cage, a scrutineer would throw a fit. The bodyshells of the Escorts just fell to pieces when used for serious rallying. The shell's seam welding was in reality just brazing not TIG welding as nowadays and again, this came apart. At an earlier time, I bought from Martin Birrane (late owner of Lola), his racing 1650cc Cosworth Ford Anglia. As there was no racing during the very cold winter of 1967/68, I decided to take it Autocrossing (racing on grass). The floor pan tore all the way across just behind the front seats, so I took out the drive train and put it into a Morgan 4/4 and took the Anglia bodyshell to the scrap yard. These old Fords were far from robust. 

Here is your next mystery car. Usual info required. 

Wilson

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[a.j.z]

Alfa Romeo 2600 Touring Spider?

[wlaidlaw]

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Correct type, era and class of car but wrong country. 

Wilson

[Rona!d]

I would have thought of an Alvis Graber, like TC 108.

[wlaidlaw]

Again correct class of car but wrong country (both UK and Switzerland).

I was always puzzled why Alvis continued so long with the three litre engine, basically a slightly enlarged and updated pre-war Speed 20 engine, when they could have done a similar update on their excellent late 1930's 4.3L engine. Post war after the end of pool petrol (75 octane) in 1950, they could have raised the compression of the 4,3 up to around 9:1, improved the gas flow, like many who race these engines in historic vehicles have done and got  200 to 220 BHP from them with good torque. The lovely looking TC21 standard coupé and Graber cars with beautiful interiors, would then have had performance to match their good looks. They were quite heavy and the three litre engine only gave very relaxed performance. I had a look at a couple when I was looking for a classic rally car and I was a bit taken aback how leisurely they were. The Lancia Flaminia Coupés I also looked at were considerably quicker but maybe, that was because most of their steel bodies had turned to rust. 

Wilson

Edited January 26, 2022 by wlaidlaw

[NigelG]

I was thinking it looked a little french…

[NigelG]

52 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

The Lancia Flaminia Coupés I also looked at were considerably quicker but maybe, that was because most of their steel bodies had turned to rust. 

I think most Italian cars of the period would later tip the scales rather lighter - mine certainly did (Until extensively/expensively repaired! )

 

 

[Rona!d]

I have to facel the fact that I´m not sure if it is a 4 cyl. III or a 6. The flatter and narrower bulb bonnet shape could hint to the smaller Volvo engine.

[wlaidlaw]

6 hours ago, Rona!d said:

I have to facel the fact that I´m not sure if it is a 4 cyl. III or a 6. The flatter and narrower bulb bonnet shape could hint to the smaller Volvo engine.

Correct Ronald. A Facellia PII-B with a Volvo P1800 engine. The owner of this one said he started restoring a Facellia PI before this but getting engine parts for the 1600 cc Pont-à-Mousson DOHC engine (designed by Machetti with help from Harry Weslake) was very difficult. As a weight saving manoeuvre Pont-à-Mousson only used 2 bearings per camshaft, which led to all sorts of issues with flexing in the valve trains. I rebuilt the Chrysler engine on a friend's HK500, which I recall being rather difficult to work on, with very haphazard electrics. The owner said he was on the look-out for one of the very rare final Facels, the Austin Healey engined P6 but they only built around 30 of these before insolvency. 

Your turn

Wilson

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[Rona!d]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb wlaidlaw:

A Facellia PII-B with a Volvo P1800 engine. The owner of this one said he started restoring a Facellia PI before this but getting engine parts for the 1600 cc Pont-à-Mousson DOHC engine (designed by Machetti with help from Harry Weslake) was very difficult.

...

The owner said he was on the look-out for one of the very rare final Facels, the Austin Healey engined P6 but they only built around 30 of these before insolvency.

Wilson, I think the III and 6 are the cars to get if you want a Facel. Both the Volvo and Austin Healey engine are better to service, getting spares etc. The Healey engine should perform similar in that smaller and lighter body compared to the big Facels. I guess more pleasure to drive too.

A Facel 6 convertible would be a rare find as only 7 or 8 were made and 5 are still known worldwide.

Your riddle car appears to be a typical "1980s condition" Facel III (when the big ones became collectables and restored but the small ones not). A bit poor looking, not restored. If you want that one perfect, you could sink 60-70 Grands with ease. A refined and slightly tuned Volvo P1800 engine would be nice in here. Would cost 4 to 5 Grands if the basic engine is ok.

If I would have the desire to get one of these, I would borrow me a good Pagoda from a friend and park it side by side to the Facel III. Wouldn´t surprise me if I´d come back home without buying the Facel 😉

Nethertheless a very nice car.

[wlaidlaw]

The Facellia was nearly double the price of an E type Jaguar and the III was more than a Mercedes 230SL, so modest sales were not a great surprise. 

Wilson

PS I wonder if the Ayatolla Ali Khameni takes the Shah of Iran's Facel II out for a spin round Tehran in the evenings? Probably still in excellent condition in the dry climate and low mileage. W

Edited January 27, 2022 by wlaidlaw

[Rona!d]

Next car will follow tomorrow.

[Rona!d]

It is weekend, so here something special but with a generous crop.

Maker, model and extra points for the year of made.

 

 

 

 

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[John Z. Goriup]

1912-14 Morgan ?

JZG

 

[Rona!d]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb John Z. Goriup:

1912-14 Morgan ?

JZG

 

Sorry, not a Morgan.

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Hallo,

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[Rona!d]

Serial built and nearly correct period of made, John.