NigelG Posted June 18, 2021 Share #15501 Posted June 18, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have edited the steering wheel...and it is not a Siata Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Hi NigelG, Take a look here Name this car..... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wlaidlaw Posted June 18, 2021 Share #15502 Posted June 18, 2021 John, Are not all the 340 Americas right hand drive? My later 1955 375MM, which had lived in Italy all its life until I took it to Switzerland in 1964, was right hand drive. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted June 18, 2021 Share #15503 Posted June 18, 2021 Wilson, as I recall, 340 Americas were produced from 1950 through '52, primarily as race cars, and Yes, I think all 24 or 25 were RH drive models. Towards the end of the model run however, there was strong demand in the US for the Americas and again, going from memory only, I believe Ferrari asked Pininfarina to build a small series ( I think it was 6 or 8 units ) of slightly more 'refined' road cars, both in Coupe and cabriolet form, for the US market, all of which were LH drive examples. I had one of those coupes, a Florida car which I bought from RRR Motors in Homewood, Illinois in the early sixties and spent a lot of time in it, which is why Nigel's cropped shot of it reminded me of it. The first Chicago winter however 'killed' the car, and I had to dispose of it. As a university student it was utter folly for me to own & drive a red Ferrari in the first place - but Boy, did it ever draw the girls. JZG 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted June 18, 2021 Share #15504 Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) You are close - but need to consider alternative carrozzerie...(to Pininfarina) Edited June 18, 2021 by NigelG Clarification Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 18, 2021 Share #15505 Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) My guess would be Vignale. Unlike John's 340, my roofless and unsilenced 375MM did not seem to hold much attraction for the girls. I did manage to persuade one to come with me on a Sunday outing for all the students who had cars, where we were going to have a picnic at the ski resort in winter of Villars. The road from Ollon to Villars is an epic road which used to be used for speed hill climbing up to 1955, when motorsport was banned in Switzerland after the Le Mans disaster. The young lady with me had obviously got a bit nervous during this drive and unnoticed by me had moved her seat forwards, so she could brace her feet against the front bulkhead (no seatbelts in a car of this era). Now the exhaust manifolds of one bank of the big 4.5L V12 Lampredi engine, run just in front of this bulkhead and on a hot June day the bulkhead gets quite warm. She suddenly shouted "my feet are burning". I stopped and unfortunately found that her shoes were now firmly welded to the bulkhead. She was not amused and sulked for the rest of the day - I can't think why Wilson Edited June 18, 2021 by wlaidlaw 1 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted June 19, 2021 Share #15506 Posted June 19, 2021 It’s not a 340... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted June 19, 2021 Share #15507 Posted June 19, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have to agree that if it isn't Pininfarina it just about has to be a Vignale-bodied Ferrari. I'm fairly certain it isn't a 250S Coupe since the only example of that model has an air scoop for rear brake cooling just below the rear side window, absent in Nigel's cropped photo, so my guess would be that it's a 212, an 'Inter', perhaps a 225 S. Whatever it is, and if it is a Ferrari and Vignale is the correct 'carrozzeria', Wilson was first to mention Vignale and should get the next turn. Nota bene, in the early '50s Enzo's car manufacturing business was but a couple of years old and was little more than a race car shop. It had yet to estblish itself as a viable manufacturer of high-end performance cars for a car-starved public world-wide, and Enzo's personal philosophy was that racing would always come first, with successful models being tamed, refined and modified for road use so they could be sold for much needed cash....and thus fund the next race-winner. The 'old man' viewed customers as a huge pain in the ass who were a necessary burden he had to deal with to support his racing, therefore, by the mid-fifties in the rapidly expanding Italian field of high-performance 'exotic sports cars, there existed a profusion of coachbuilders, suppliers, stylists, designers and engineers, whom Ferrari tasked with the job of working with the few 'constants' available to them, such as Ferrari's steel-tube frames in various wheelbase lengths, engines of various displacement ( Colombo or Lampredi ) & finally the body, always an 'outside' effort in those days, frequently designed ( styled) by one and completed by another, or at other times executed by one 'house' altogether, since Ferrari refused to commit money to coach building, a situation which lasted until '68 when Fiat purchased the almost bankrupt 'road division' of the Ferrari enterprise and integrated the car building operation to produce much more 'in house', leaving Enzo to run the racing end of things. Therefore it's little wonder that many of the early Ferraris looked similar, utilized the same bits and pieces and in some cases are exceedingly rare with only one model ever being produced. JZG Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 19, 2021 Share #15508 Posted June 19, 2021 I regret having been housebound for the last few months, I have not been taking any photos, so I will need to pass the baton to others, even if I am correct that it is a Vignale body. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted June 19, 2021 Share #15509 Posted June 19, 2021 To complete the answer: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Following on from Stuart's 212 Inter Pininfarina this is the 212 Inter Vignale Berlinetta from 1952. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Following on from Stuart's 212 Inter Pininfarina this is the 212 Inter Vignale Berlinetta from 1952. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4223097'>More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted June 19, 2021 Share #15510 Posted June 19, 2021 Right at the beginning of my considerations an inner voice said: "Check the early Ferraris first" while another voice shouted "Leave them aside, it´s a small italian makers car". Well, Ferrari was a small maker that time, I forgot 😉 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted June 21, 2021 Share #15511 Posted June 21, 2021 In view of Wilson's hopefully temporary inconvenience, allow me to post the next riddle car. Personally, I think this might be a very strong contender for 'ugliest car ever'.............especially considering the manufacturer & the reputation of the people involved in the creation of this rare specimen. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4223966'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 21, 2021 Share #15512 Posted June 21, 2021 The wheels look like Facel Vega wheels and I think that might be a Chrysler star on the back wing but I don't think Facel ever made a car that ugly. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted June 21, 2021 Share #15513 Posted June 21, 2021 The Chrysler star is actually a five sided figure. This car makes me think of one of Brooks Stevens' less delightful designs, but probably not Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted June 22, 2021 Share #15514 Posted June 22, 2021 Wilson, Stuart, .....so far, noone has come close to getting even slightly 'warm', thereforer since the crop above offers no clues ( there has been no editing or blanking out other than cropping ) I will offer the following: all European, 1950s, from a small manufacturer with a brief lifespan of less than a decade in the sportscar business, with an eventual output of around a hundred cars - one of the most highly regarded coachbuilders, from another country than the car's manufacturer, had done 18 of the first series of this manufacturer's production with favorable reviews, but when management decided that something more modern and eye-catching was needed to spur sluggish sales, they asked the coachbuilder to design a much more futuristic, sleek (?) and exotic body for the redesigned & planned Series II model..............the result was that not long afterwards the manufacturer abondoned the sportscar business and reverted back to making utilitarian, industrial vehicles. Another cropped detail below.................I know it looks a lot like an early GRP / fiberglass body, but it's actually aluminum. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4224198'>More sharing options...
NigelG Posted June 22, 2021 Share #15515 Posted June 22, 2021 John Thanks for the additional info - I'm scratching my head (which I think is a good thing!). I thought at first it might be some kind of stateside Virgil Exner effort but I wonder if in fact possibly Ghia or Frua had a (misguided) european hand in this - there is as Wilson notes a whiff of Facel Vega... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted June 22, 2021 Share #15516 Posted June 22, 2021 Virgil Exner had no input nor did he have anything to do with this car, and it is not a Facel-Vega......but the coachbuilder of the puzzle car was French. Think of a country in western Europe which is the last country you would associate with exotic sports car production. One more very generous crop / clue, then I'll wait until tomorrow for more of the usual suspects to chime in, if they will, before 'all is revealed'. I think you'll be surprised. The green ribbon denotes that fact the car successfully completed the 55-mile Tour d'Elegance, thus earning 5 points, which is intended to break potential ties between tour participants and non-participants. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4224215'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 22, 2021 Share #15517 Posted June 22, 2021 I wonder if the star on the back wing could be related to a post war East German manufacturer, who had a similar logo? There were some of their cars bodied by the likes of Saoutchik and Spohn. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted June 22, 2021 Share #15518 Posted June 22, 2021 Interestingly, this crop suggests it could be much better looking than it actually is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted June 22, 2021 Share #15519 Posted June 22, 2021 Yes - I think in some iterations it wasn’t so bad looking...but it is made ungainly by the proportions of the rear overhang in particular. The crop and the extra info helps confirm it’s a Pegaso (102?)by Saoutchik (as per Wilson’s insight). I don’t recall seeing the star logo on the rear wing but I think that version had no bonnet scoop either...maybe that was an earlier version? The Touring-bodied versions are less ungainly but still have some very oddball styling details. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted June 22, 2021 Share #15520 Posted June 22, 2021 Wilson suspected the correct coachbuilder when he alluded to Saoutchik in Post #15517, and Nigel finally closed the loop identifying the car correctly as a Pegaso Z-102. In fact, this very car, a 1954 model, Ser.# 0148 was the 1953 Paris show car, introducing what unofficially has been referred to as the Pegaso Z-102/B Berlinetta Series II model. 5 of these were bodied by Jaques Saouchik, the Russian born, French-based coachbuilder who was known for his flamboyant, extravagant designs on mainly French chassis before WW II. Some of the five had stars, some did not. As Nigel observed, correctly in my opinion, it's all a matter of proportions. The exaggerated rear overhang springs from Pegaso's managing director Wilfredo Ricart's desire to have the car look like 'a predator ready to leap forward', hence the tapering lower rear and the excessive length. I think one glance comparing the taut aluminum skin draped over the red Ferrari Inter chassis above versus the needlessly long & elaborate sheet metal on the Pegaso illustrates a perfect example of appropriate form following function......or not. Incidentally, the air scoop was necessary because the 2.8 liter V8 could be ordered with dual four-barrel Weber carbs which were significantly taller than the standard version Webers. Thanks for playing the game, your turn, Nigel JZG JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4224533'>More sharing options...
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