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1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said:

John, 

Phantom II Rolls Royces are surprisingly nice to drive, ....

Wilson

Had a late Barker bodied "Continental" (90SK) which as Wilson said is a a pleasant car to drive.  Inclination to understeer when pushed, but assume they were not designed for "hanging the tail":

 

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I was going to wait a while, but it seems more than one have taken the time to pursue the story behind this fascinating and remarkable automobile & are aware of the identity of this thing so I think it's time to reveal all. It's the 1935 Hoffman 8X..............and as indicated, it's the only one ever made. The curious thing about this car is that even though it wasn't officially commissioned by one of the big manufacturers there seems to have been enough money available to develop a on

Not a 450, 150, 200 or 300 - rarer than those, with only two original factory cars made, although some have been cobbled together later. Given that you can't measure the engine size from my photo and John is going away I will disclose that it is a 250S. This was the first car to use the new (or at least much revised) four cylinder engine planned for the forthcoming T series birdcage models. The idea was to produce a car with the straight line performance of the 300S but with the lighter and torq

I have several and will search... but here's a really unrecognizable one... 😎 because my dad had some normal cars... but HIS dad even BUILT its own !! he had a small workshop for agri gear... and put some pieces together in 1900, as recorded time ago in our local newspaper (dirty scan hereunder) ... after that (1902)  he was approached by a gentleman from Turin who easily convinced him that making cars needed organization... 😁... and capital... and that was better to sell FIATs instead of making

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Yes - not sure but I thought that it wasn’t intended as a prototype for the road car, and wasn’t intended to race under the ‘prototipo’ designation, so really it’s a “one-off” design study not a prototype?

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5 minutes ago, hektor said:

For some reason the image of Cruella De Vil from Walt Disney's "101 Dalmations" driving in a maniacal fashion (pun) springs to mind...

Philip.

Edited by pippy
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I’m currently studying Italian at CUNY but haven’t got far enough to tackle any of the original sources...😀. I’m not sure what the actual Pebble Beach description was. I’ll try to find the wording from Villa d’Este...

 

edit - Described simply as “Dino 206S Competizione” with vehicle type listed as “Berlinetta”

Edited by NigelG
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2 hours ago, pippy said:

Is the yellow car the 1967 Frankfurt Show 206S, Chassis No. 034 (same chassis # as mentioned by Wilson in post 15271), the Paolo Martin-designed Prototipo Berlinetta Competizione by Pininfarina (which latterly was fitted with adjustable front and rear spoilers!)?

The reason for the bulky lower half of the doors was to accomodate the curved door windows which opened by sliding downwards into the door recess!

Philip.

Yes, Philip, the second car, the ' Yellow Ferrari' is the '67  Frankfurt show car. As near as I can retrace this it was officially called the 1967 Dino 206 Berlinetta Prototipo Competizione.  After the three original Dino V6-powered 206 race cars finished Lemans and the remainder of the relatively succesful '66 season, Enzo wanted to build 50 of them for homolagtion as FIA Group 4 sports racers. Financial problem and the never-ending Italian labor troubles all conspired to limit production of the Drogo-bodied 206SP to a mere 18 units, making them ineligible for homologation and relegating them to run as 'Prototypes'. Only 17 were actually used by the factory werks and /or privateers as racers with the 18th example (Ser. # 10523 ) being shipped off as a rolling chassis to the Pininfarina studios to receive a Paolo Martin designed ( his first assignment at Pininfarina, at age 23 ) all-aluminum body. The car indeed has one of the Lemans engines installed, which necessitated the 'bulbous' rear quarters to accomodate the tall airbox covering the three Weber 40 DCN 2 carburetors,, a result of Vittorio Jano's redesign of the original Dino Ferrari designed V6 of 1956. The instructions to PF stipulated that the car was to utilize the latest in race technology, and even though the wings were originally painted silver, with the needlessly elaborate & prominent brackets to highlight that the latest technology was indeed being applied to this daring experiment, the wings were redone in black for the Paris show later that year, since all that was about the exact time that the first rudimentary wings started to appear on race cars. Enzo original intent was for this to be the first factory designed and built 'Supercar', combining the latest in race-tech and road-going luxury & legality. The car was well received at the Frankfurt show, but was never put into production because the takover of Ferrari by Agnelli's FIAT occurred less than a year later.

JZG

 
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My experience with beam front axle cars is the wedges between said axle and springs go missing during maintenance or restoration.  I am old enough to have enjoyed these cars before most were badly recommissioned.  The vintage car in which I have done most miles (not kilometers) was a Speed Six Bentley wherein the steering was not as precise and sensitive as a Phantom II, but was not heavy even at parking speeds, but then I am an ex-rower!  I had this car sideways in the wet which impressed the prospective bride riding in the back - slippery wet road and cross-ply tyres.

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One thing I’m not sure about with the Dino is whether the cables attached to the rear wing allow for trim adjustment of the wing angle while the car is being driven?
 

 

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13 minutes ago, John Z. Goriup said:

...You're next up, Philip...

Thank you for the extra photographs, John. I think it's an absolutely stunning thing. The wings were silver in the snaps from the Tanner / Nye book but black in the later volumes so it was interesting to hear they were repainted for Paris. I seem to recall that, originally, the car didn't have them at all which, though losing out on the undeniable 'WOW!' factor, might have been a more beautiful machine.

Here's something slightly less rarified!...

Philip.

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2 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

John, 

Phantom II Rolls Royces ...... The 7.7 litre engine produced a fairly miserable 122 BHP and that is a gross figure, the net figure being around 110 BHP or about the same as the 1 litre Ecoboost engine in a Ford Fiesta :).

Wilson

Reflecting on Wilson's comments, my thoughts are that Derby and Crewe were more focused on torque; long stoke motors with a comparitively small carburettor for a high gas speed.  The torque was so massive that they could be started on a hill in top gear without any shudder.  Horsepower was seeminly irrelevant.  They were touring cars not sports or racing cars.

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The lack of power coupled with often very heavy bodies on the Phantom II, has become more of a problem with modern traffic densities in Europe. It can make overtaking a large slow moving truck a very sweaty palms/white knuckles event. I presume there must have been complaints from P.II owners, hence the move to a V12 for the Phantom III. Sadly this engine was released in an somewhat under-developed state, with problems with the semi-hydraulic tappets, with eccentric bushings and inadequate coolant circulation for the continuous speeds made possible by the improved trunk roads of the late 1930's. One has to wonder if Henry Royce, who died in 1933, still been at the helm, would the P.III problems have been sorted pre-introduction. All the P.III problems are of course all sorted nowadays by subsequent development, mostly by external engineers rather than Rolls Royce themselves. 

Wilson

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9 hours ago, John Z. Goriup said:

Circa 1953 or so Renault 750..

Sorry for the delay

I had to resort to google to check that name; I'd only ever heard it called a 4CV but, yes, in some markets it was known as a Renault 750 so Spot On, John.

Whole thing;

Over to you for the next beauty!

Philip.

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11 hours ago, Rona!d said:

Everytime I see a 4CV I look at the wheels and think of the young Jean Rédélé racing his 4CV Rédélé Speciale before he created his Alpine.

Thanks for the nudge, Ronald!

My knowledge of the history of the Alpine brand was scant (to say the least!) so I've done some digging. Very interesting story!

Philip.

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