Name this car....

[stuny]

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10 hours ago, ramarren said:

I always wanted a Citroen DS ... They're not common in the USA, they sell for good money, and finding good service people for them is difficult here. The SM model was a dream ship for years, but way out of my price range. Sigh. 

It's lovely to see them photographed on the road. They're just as rare to see here as my Lancia Fulvia Coupé. 

G

Godfrey -

Please share with us photos of your Lancia.

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[wlaidlaw]

My father hired a DS19 on a family holiday to Switzerland in 1961. It was the special hire car version which used the manual ID gearchange with foot pedal clutch rather than the semi-automatic two pedal pneumatic gearchange (I think this was also the version of the DS that was sold in the USA). 5 up plus luggage for three weeks it was a tad ambitious of my father to "do" all the main Swiss passes, the Furka, Grimsel, Susten, Julier and Maloya. I recall chugging up the steeper parts in first gear and my brother and I asking facetiously, "do you want us to get out and push Dad?" 

Wilson

[ramarren]

5 hours ago, stuny said:

Godfrey -

Please share with us photos of your Lancia.

I believe I've posted a few photos of it here before ... The last couple of photos are quick and cheesy, after it was back from some rust repair and rocker panel refinishing in June: 

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... which means it's time to get out on an appropriate early morning ride to a nice setting with a 'real' camera.  

BTW: I've put all the photos I've made of it onto Flickr in a dedicated album: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVBfFhG

G

[stuny]

Lovely.  Thank you.  I forgot how incredibly clear the sightlines are from the driver's seat.

[ramarren]

59 minutes ago, stuny said:

Lovely.  Thank you.  I forgot how incredibly clear the sightlines are from the driver's seat.

Yes, the Fulvia Coupé is very easy to see out of in all directions ... I have a passenger side rear view mirror to fit, but I've taken my time getting to that because it really isn't any problem at all to see anywhere you need to just by turning your head a little bit.  That mirror will be fitted next week, along with new door seals.

One step at a time ... I'm getting close to done! Next work after this is some front suspension and front brake updates. There's not much more to go after that. 

G

[wlaidlaw]

Godfrey, 

Are you going to fit the 1600 HF longer lower front suspension arms to get a bit of negative camber? You will be surprised how much of an improvement this is for a minuscule reduction in straight line stability. 

Wilson

[ramarren]

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5 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

Godfrey, 

Are you going to fit the 1600 HF longer lower front suspension arms to get a bit of negative camber? You will be surprised how much of an improvement this is for a minuscule reduction in straight line stability. 

Wilson

I'm fitting a full set (upper and lower) HF1600 front suspension arms, along with polyurethane bushings and new ball joints. I feel the stock on-center steering feel (in my car) isn't particularly stable; it's a little "soft" in feel on center. I suspect these changes might actually improve straight line stability and steering feel a bit; it may take a little dialing-in on the toe setting to get the feel where I want it.

I've been hunting for information on the HF 1600 front end toe settings... if you know of any resources, please let me know. All the references I find so far list the factory 1-3mm total toe out, same as for the standard S1-S3 Coupe. But I think with a negative camber setting that may be too much toe-out for best stability. I might reduce it to 0-1mm... ??  

G

[IkarusJohn]

3 hours ago, ramarren said:

I believe I've posted a few photos of it here before ... The last couple of photos are quick and cheesy, after it was back from some rust repair and rocker panel refinishing in June: 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

... which means it's time to get out on an appropriate early morning ride to a nice setting with a 'real' camera.  

BTW: I've put all the photos I've made of it onto Flickr in a dedicated album: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmVBfFhG

G

Lovely, Godfrey.  Reminds me of another of my favourite cars - the Fiat 124 Sports.  The popular colour here was yellow - lovely car.

[wlaidlaw]

Godfrey, 

From memory, I used 10' of toe out which approx equal to 1mm, so I think you are on the right track (pun apologies). What size tyres are you running? I was running 185/65 on 6R x 14" rims but maybe nowadays folks have gone to 15" wheels for improved tyre availability. Even 15" is getting difficult. I cannot get the correct 275/50 x 15" for back of my Porsche 911 RSR. The nearest is Michelin MXW tyres in 255/45 x 15 for road use or Michelin 23-62 x 15 (equivalent to 270/45 x 15) in Michelin TB15 treaded race tyres for tarmac rally use. The 225/50 x 15 are no problem to get for the front and they are available as road/all weather rally or tarmac rally. 

Wilson

[stuny]

3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Lovely, Godfrey.  Reminds me of another of my favourite cars - the Fiat 124 Sports.  The popular colour here was yellow - lovely car.

I too had a 124 Sport Coupe, in red.  Terrific little car with nearly the same outward vision.

[ramarren]

2 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

Godfrey, 

From memory, I used 10' of toe out which approx equal to 1mm, so I think you are on the right track (pun apologies). What size tyres are you running? I was running 185/65 on 6R x 14" rims but maybe nowadays folks have gone to 15" wheels for improved tyre availability. Even 15" is getting difficult. I cannot get the correct 275/50 x 15" for back of my Porsche 911 RSR. The nearest is Michelin MXW tyres in 255/45 x 15 for road use or Michelin 23-62 x 15 (equivalent to 270/45 x 15) in Michelin TB15 treaded race tyres for tarmac rally use. The 225/50 x 15 are no problem to get for the front and they are available as road/all weather rally or tarmac rally. 

Wilson

Thanks, that's very useful! 

The Fulvia Coupé S1 with four speed is taller geared in all gears than the later five speed models, so I run the Cromodora 14x6" wheels with 175/70-R14 tires fitted. They're a perfect match to the original 135-R14 for diameter so the gearing is correct, and feels right. (The previous rally Campagnolo 13x5.5" with 185/70-R13 tires I had was geared down for rally purposes, to keep the revs up, and as such was a buzzy thing on the freeway—it was always at 4300-4600 rpm to cruise with traffic. Now it runs 70mph at about 3900 rpm, which is much more comfortable for any distance, and the gearbox is much more useful in the lower gears.)

15" wheels are available, but tires become something of a problem due to most of the correct sizing are too short on sidewall for the Fulvia's suspension, imo. I've driven one or two fitted that way and was not keen on the feel. A 70 series tires seems the right choice.

175/70-R14 size tires are fairly available with a good range of makes, models, and sizes. The Fulvia seems pretty undemanding on tires ... I have some relatively inexpensive Hankooks on it right now, and it sticks just fine in the mountain twisties. There are some very nice sportier tires available (at double the price) but I'm not sure the car's performance needs them.  

G

[pippy]

On 8/22/2023 at 2:01 AM, ramarren said:

I always wanted a Citroen DS ... They're not common in the USA, they sell for good money, and finding good service people for them is difficult here...

All things considered the DS is surprisingly well-represented here in London. I wouldn't say it's common, exactly, but they are seen far more frequently than might be expected.

12 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Lovely, Godfrey.  Reminds me of another of my favourite cars - the Fiat 124 Sports...

Without wishing to prolong the diversions too much...

As mentioned in the 'Made You Happy' thread just a short while after I took the snaps of the Citroens posted earlier I came across a small group of 'old cars' one of which was a Fiat 124 Sport Spider '2000'. It was in Showroom Condition; unbelievably well-sorted. The wheels were so clean they could have been used as dinner plates! This is actually a tight crop from a snap and the Fiat is slightly 'soft' as I was actually focussed on the rear-end of the (similarly 'clean') Porsche 924 but hopefully an idea of the superb condition of the 124 comes across nonetheless;

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

There was a very interesting and surprisingly in-depth report published in the April 1973 edition of Car & Driver where six 'sports cars' were taken to Ontario's Motor Speedway for a track-test; one of which being a 124 Sport Spider. The others were an MGB, MG Midget, Opel GT, Porsche 914, Triumph Spitfire 1500, Triumph GT6 and a VW Karmann Ghia (Type 1).

The 124 came out top...

Philip.

Edited August 23, 2023 by pippy

[Graham (G4FUJ)]

And a rather tasty looking BMW R-series motorcycle even further in the background Philip

[ramarren]

11 hours ago, pippy said:

...Without wishing to prolong the diversions too much...

As mentioned in the 'Made You Happy' thread just a short while after I took the snaps of the Citroens posted earlier I came across a small group of 'old cars' one of which was a Fiat 124 Sport Spider '2000'. It was in Showroom Condition; unbelievably well-sorted. The wheels were so clean they could have been used as dinner plates! This is actually a tight crop from a snap and the Fiat is slightly 'soft' as I was actually focussed on the rear-end of the (similarly 'clean') Porsche 924 but hopefully an idea of the superb condition of the 124 comes across nonetheless;

There was a very interesting and surprisingly in-depth report published in the April 1973 edition of Car & Driver where six 'sports cars' were taken to Ontario's Motor Speedway for a track-test; one of which being a 124 Sport Spider. The others were an MGB, MG Midget, Opel GT, Porsche 914, Triumph Spitfire 1500, Triumph GT6 and a VW Karmann Ghia (Type 1).

The 124 came out top...

Well, it *is* a car thread.

The FIAT 124 series were delightful cars, with a good engine and 'fun to drive' chassis dynamics. They were more modern than all the others in that list other than perhaps the Porsche 914 and better equipped as standard from the dealer. I had two friends who owned and loved theirs, and I nearly bought a '71 124 Coupe myself, but got sidetracked by some other car (likely another Alfa Romeo Spider...).

6 hours ago, Graham (G4FUJ) said:

And a rather tasty looking BMW R-series motorcycle even further in the background Philip

Ah, looks like a BMW R65, likely the sporty model based on the seat trim. Nice bikes! My uncle and two of my friends had these bikes and I rode them fairly frequently back in the day. 

Getting back to the photography portion of the thread, I carried my M10-M on this morning's bicycle ride but I was having too much fun riding to stop and make a photo. I did see that pretty Avanti again, but I've posted that car's photo before.

G

Edited August 23, 2023 by ramarren

[pippy]

1 hour ago, ramarren said:

...They were more modern than all the others in that list other than perhaps the Porsche 914 and better equipped as standard from the dealer...

Curious that you should phrase that thought in just such a fashion, Ramarren, and germaine to the points Wilson and yourself were making in the discussion of tyre sizes.

As mentioned in my earlier post in the Car and Driver track-test the 124 came out best. In the report about the 914, however, this is what C&D wrote in the very first sentence;

"The Porsche 914 has qualified fourth on the grid. The tragic part is that it misses the front row by just one inch and that inch happens to be in wheel-width. The SCCA...allows only the standard version of any car recognised for the Class. Porsche('s)...standard car's 4.5" wide wheels are replaced by the 5.5" rims on the 'Appearance Group' 914s. We tried both sizes. The extra inch is a very worthwhile option...but you might as well forget about the wider wheels because they aren't legal for SS / SC..."

The above comes from of a collection of period-correct reviews concerning the 914 published by Brooklands Books entitled 'Porsche 914 Gold Portfolio - 1969 - 1976' which - as I see - was bought on the 2nd June 1998. A rather wonderful good-sized (180+ page) work which was very helpful when I was running my own '73 914 2.0L.

The 'Standard Version' of the 914 came with 4.5" steel rims. I ran a set of Porsche's 5.5" alloys on mine............

Philip.

Edited August 23, 2023 by pippy

[wlaidlaw]

I had a discussion with a scrutineer on a rally I went on with my 911 RSR. Firstly he did not like that I was running Minilite wheels, even though I explained to him that a rim failure on a Fuchs wheel on the 1976 Circuit of Ireland, put me off those forever. He also complained that my back wheels were 9" x 15 whereas he was sure they should have been 10" x 15. I had to show him the spec book for the group B rally version of the 911RSR which had 9" wide wheels against the race version of the RSR which had 10" wide wheels. Luckily all this distracted him from looking in the engine bay, where I am running the later and far more efficient D Motronic digital  engine management system rather than either mechanical fuel injection or K Jetronic analogue fuel injection. This dates from around 1983 onwards but my car is 1977. 

Wilson

[pippy]

1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said:

...Luckily all this distracted him from looking in the engine bay, where I am running the later and far more efficient D Motronic digital  engine management system rather than either mechanical fuel injection or K Jetronic analogue fuel injection...

The 914 which I owned had been both imported and prepared by a chap who, at the time, was a fairly well-known, well respected full-time air-cooled race engine builder / part-time historic racer with his own 914 (I recall he held, currently, a class lap-record at one UK track). One of the first things he did during the 2.0L motor's rebuild was to ditch the temperamental and unreliable K-Jetronic (L-Jetronic?) stuff and replace it with a pair of twin Weber 40s fed by an electronic fuel pump.

He also took the time to install what he described as 'A few Semi-Track Improvements' as part of the engine build. The upside was that the car, whilst certainly a bit 'peaky' in traffic, was indecently rapid for a Street 'Fourteener'. The downside was that when driven with a bit of vim it was almost as thirsty as the '65 289 Cobra you discussed a few pages back!...

Great Car. Tremendous Fun. I wish I still had it.

Philip.

Edited August 23, 2023 by pippy

[ramarren]

3 hours ago, pippy said:

Curious that you should phrase that thought in just such a fashion, Ramarren, and germaine to the points Wilson and yourself were making in the discussion of tyre sizes. ...

While I'm by no means a knowledgeable Porsche-phile or well-versed in 914 lore, a couple of my friends are deep into these cars and *all* of them have complained about how poorly set up the standard dealer-issue 914 cars were if you did not take a couple of the performance options. So I felt it wise to be precise.

One of my buddies has three of the 914s now, and the careful juggling of parts and pieces, both dealer optional and aftermarket, has created a truly exceptional little beastie to drive. 

G

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[stuny]

Wilson -

Have you a new mystery car yet for us?

[wlaidlaw]

Stuart, 

Sadly not. The Toyshop, which has been sold, was completely empty apart from my Morgan Three Wheeler when I went to collect it last Monday, so even though I took my Q3 with me, there was nothing to photograph. Was all a bit sad with all the exotic cars, motor racing photos, trophies, rally plates, banners and flags all gone.  All the cars have either been sold or gone to the UK. Very unpleasant journey back in the Morgan, with the temperature at the half way point, in the town of Vidauban being 43"C/ 109.5ºF, the sort of temperatures expected in Death Valley and in an fully open car with just small aero screens, like driving in a furnace. The traffic was also extremely heavy. The Morgan however behaved impeccably apart from the brake pedal going rather "long" as the rear drum must have become exceedingly hot on the steep descent from La Garde Freinet. It recovered as I got back up into the mountains towards Tourtour and the temperature dropped a little. I am going to take out the front disc brake pads and make sure the pistons are free, to ensure they are playing a full role in the overall braking.

So still open to anyone who would like to post a photo. 

Wilson