Sony NEX as a Leica M8 alternative

[bill]

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Is that it?

 

Seriously?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[menos I M6]

This is something, I really don't like to do, but I do really need, to write this off now, so bear with this one comment please.

I apologize in forward for my impolite comment, that follows to the Sony Corporation and the hard working people, involved in the NEX project.

 

So here goes:

 

This is the most disgusting thing in industrial design, I have ever seen.

This … thing indeed looks as much as a camera, as a washing machine, a sack of Belgian Potatoes or an Igloo.

 

I indeed thought, that after the latest breed of super-zoom cameras from diverse camera manufacturers, there would not be the slightest chance of somebody topping those in sheer ugliness and disproportion.

 

And yes, the camera design, apart from it's usefulness and technical advances is one h… of an important point to a big part of the market (remember the "Chubby").

I really like the marketing - tech - talk on the specs of the thing - boy are these fellas creative in writing ;-)

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[luigi bertolotti]

Uhm... Menos... your post and the "Ugly camera !" from Jaap are encouraging me to put away my excess of politeness that made me write some post ago :

"...at first sight I personally do not like very much the look..."

 

To be clear : is a TERRIBLE look , even conceding that maybe we cannot yet judge completely the ergonomics.

Edited May 11, 2010 by luigi bertolotti

[sandymc]

Welcome to the new world - where we are is that electronics get smaller and smaller, but sensor size and hence lens size is constrained by you wanting to catch as many photons as you can. So you end up with cameras that are all lens and no body, as the NEX is.

 

Personally, I don't like the looks at all. But a Sony APS-C sensor in a package that size? Assuming some lens adapters come out, I'll probably be a buyer. Actually, I might be a buyer anyway - I like small cameras.

 

Sandy

[jaapv]

It is not really the lens itself, but that beer tin they fitted around it... Otoh, Sandy is right, the specifications are interesting.

[luigi bertolotti]

What is intriguing to me is a simple computation... Sony sensor size is 15,6 x 23,4... flange to sensor is 18... scale to 24 x 36 and flange to sensor goes to 27,7... don't pretend to enter in tech details on angles of incidence, microlenses etc... but is someway encouraging...

[luigi bertolotti]

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Welcome to the new world - where we are is that electronics get smaller and smaller, but sensor size and hence lens size is constrained by you wanting to catch as many photons as you can. So you end up with cameras that are all lens and no body, as the NEX is.

 

Personally, I don't like the looks at all. But a Sony APS-C sensor in a package that size? Assuming some lens adapters come out, I'll probably be a buyer. Actually, I might be a buyer anyway - I like small cameras.

 

Sandy

 

Me too (probably)... of course with M adapter AND everything that allows to put my eye on : I HATE arms-out shooting ("arms down" as with Rolleiflex TLR was another thing... )

[sdai]

It won't be too long before the camera "body" disappears altogether when people start to stuff electronics into the lens barrel. It will look like a bazooka - perfect fit to war photographers and wannabes. I agree with everyone who said the NEX is fugly.

[Guest]

What is intriguing to me is a simple computation... Sony sensor size is 15,6 x 23,4... flange to sensor is 18... scale to 24 x 36 and flange to sensor goes to 27,7... don't pretend to enter in tech details on angles of incidence, microlenses etc... but is someway encouraging...

 

microlenses??

 

We still have the 5.5k€ flagship M9 to climb up to, but all micro 4/3 + ricoh gxr and the x1 drowned today imo. Let's what the shortest M lens is that can work with this (compact&beautiful) cam body and it's new chip.

Glad to have M8 for M wide angles (since I don't think NEX has any microlenses) and a M6TTL 0.58 for my 24Lux. Would I swap this lens for a M9 body? No.

 

Regardless of our point of view technical progress happens and does not stop (soundless solid state shutter in a mirrorless FF, not to mention video, that I do not care about).

[stunsworth]

We still have the 5.5k€ flagship M9 to climb up to, but all micro 4/3 + ricoh gxr and the x1 drowned today imo.

 

I don't follow. Are you saying no one is going to buy the Panasonic Ricoh or Leica, to continue your metaphor are you saving they are dead in the water?

 

It seems that every time a new camera is released by anyone it becomes a M8 or M9 or X1 (or substitute your camera of choice) "killer". It's all becoming a little tedious and is one of the reasons I don't spend much time in the digital forums these days.

 

If I've misunderstood you I apologise, but the point I made is still valid, albeit relating to other posts.

[luigi bertolotti]

I don't follow. Are you saying no one is going to buy the Panasonic Ricoh or Leica, to continue your metaphor are you saving they are dead in the water?

 

It seems that every time a new camera is released by anyone it becomes a M8 or M9 or X1 (or substitute your camera of choice) "killer". It's all becoming a little tedious and is one of the reasons I don't spend much time in the digital forums these days.

 

If I've misunderstood you I apologise, but the point I made is still valid, albeit relating to other posts.

 

Steve, you got a point - looking for the "M killer" is tedious - a M is a M, period : RF photography has such individualities that, I think, people that love it won't never find the "killer" : otherwise, in the '70s all of them (us...) had switched to SLRs... they were the supposed "killer" of Leicas.

For me, but this is my opinion deriving from a passion of mine, it's all about our lenses : any product from any vendor which, in some way, opens the capability to capture reality through a glass we love, makes our interest wake up...be it a 4/3, an APS... a FF maybe one day... this Sony is a step toward this... so better if the final step will have (even if only as a brand name) the red dot on it...

[Guest]

Thank you for your very polite question to clarify my remark, Steve! I'm sorry I might have upset you.

 

First of all, this is the M8 forum. It gets less trafic since last autumn when this camera model was discontinued. Luckily the M8 "killer" was a in-house superior product. People are seemingly queuing up to buy the M9.

So "action" is in the sister forum (alas not sister fora, since the other two digital ones add up to less than the one of this discontinued camera here, in terms of attention, though they treat brand new models).

 

I was writing about micro 4/3 and would like to clarify, that I think that it looks like a good category, giving good results. I don't have one, can only tell from pictures seen in fora, at dealers and also a friend's results. But fact is that when a cam with better specs in a smaller body comes out, the manufacturers might think at least about a new chip to incorporate, in order to get on par.

 

For us photographers it is a good thing to see two systems compete, because as we saw in the Canicon SLRs, quality goes up and prices down. Don't you like that?

 

As far as the Leica X1 and the Ricoh GTR are concerned I am not amazon to know how well they sold up to now. Their prospects did not improve starting today imo, unless someone wants a fixed lens 35mm equivalent or a lens&chip combination with a 50mm macro for instance.

 

Plus the idea expressed by some posters here, that the NEX might take M-lenses to a better quality in the high ISO range than the M8 and for less expenses than a M9 does not sound like bad news for owners of the M8 and M-mount lenses imo.

[stunsworth]

I was writing about micro 4/3 and would like to clarify, that I think that it looks like a good category, giving good results. I don't have one, can only tell from pictures seen in fora, at dealers and also a friend's results. But fact is that when a cam with better specs in a smaller body comes out, the manufacturers might think at least about a new chip to incorporate, in order to get on par.

 

For us photographers it is a good thing to see two systems compete, because as we saw in the Canicon SLRs, quality goes up and prices down. Don't you like that?

 

I have a Panasonic GF-1, and it's an excellent camera, but I still prefer the M8.

 

I've tried using M lenses on the camera and to be honest it's a pain. In bright daylight it's very difficult to see the rear screen when focussing. I'm not too bothered about that when using the AF lens - 20mm f1.7 - as there's enough detail to compose the photograph, and I can see what the AF has locked onto. Certainly even in subdued lighting I find it much quicker to focus M lenses on an M camera.

[jsrockit]

No, I wish Sony would pay me! I am just interested in using M lenses, especially with a 28mm FOV equivalent digitally. I wish I could afford the M8 or M9, but sadly no.

 

If you can afford Leica lenses, you should be able to buy a used M8.

[markowich]

at least this puts the X1 to eternal rest. the sony is half the X1 price and quadrupel perfomance. i do hope that leica gets the message this time,

peter

[jsrockit]

I'd still rather use my X1.

[markowich]

I'd still rather use my X1.

 

any other reason than 'i already have it'?

peter

[stunsworth]

any other reason than 'i already have it'?

 

Difficult to say until we can look at some full sized examples of the Sony at high ISOs. It's not unknown for manufacturers to apply a lot of noise reduction to high ISO RAW files. It will be interesting to see photographs of a highly detailed subject change as the ISO on the Sony is cranked up.

[adan]

1) to the original poster - my apologies for the Forum. Some people obviously just got out of the wrong side of the bed....

 

2) If all you need is a walk-around snapshot camera with a 24 f/2.8 equivalent, I don't see any problem with picking a NEX over an M8. I think at some print sizes and ISOs there will be no difference - and at other print sizes there will be a huge difference.

 

3) Personally, any camera whose only viewing method is a screen on the back is DOA, for me. Period. I guess for the 16mm lens there is a dedicated accesory finder, but that is pretty limited - what about other focal lengths?

 

4) On the flip side, kudos to Sony for making a 24mm-equivalent prime lens (with adapters for 20mm and fisheye equivalents) - and for thinking things through and providing an adapter for their Alpha SLR lenses as well (Can we say "R Solution"?)

 

5) as to the form factor - traditional Sony digital camera design. Google up an image of the Sony 828 or 505/707/717 (not be confused with their e-book reader 505).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[adan]

dpreview has posted a NEX-5 samples gallery. Unfortunately, no examples with the 16mm. ISO 1600 shows a lack of noise, but the kit zoom is no threat to Leica lenses on the M8 based on the samples, so it is a bit hard to judge how much detail is lost due to the lens, and how much to processing away image noise. I'll look forward to additional samples with the prime lens at various ISOs.