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To crop or not to crop.....


57andrew

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I don't worship HCB, I'm against worshipping.

I simply admire his strength, his stamina, and his position as an human being. I've found in his work inspiration and stimulus for my own photography. But it took me years to find why his work is very good, why he is a master: if you go against worshipping, and try to find out the reasons of his being a master, you will find it hard and difficult to follow. And in this sense I can only agree with Gentleman Villain: worshipping veils the authentic merits!

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My guess is that many photographers that use the above described crop method for perspective control of converging lines will neverthreless still feel a sense that the subject is skewed or perhaps falling towards a particular portion of the frame.

 

Not me. I used 4x5 and 8x10 cameras for years. My results with the M8.2 are just fine for my current needs, which are very specific and very limited. And nobody, including experienced large format photographer friends, have cited any issues. Otherwise, I wouldn't go to the trouble of making the final print.

 

Jeff

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I crop some of my shots,especially the grab shots on the streets when you just haven`t the time to stop and change lenses or to move closer.I also crop some of my landscape shots if I`m not happy with certain elements.I do nothing different now as I did when I used film and printed my own.Whether it be all of the neg or just some of it...the final image is what is important........that`s my humble opinion for what it`s worth.

 

Andy

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You've not really said why it is that you are against cropping, but perhaps your quote gives a clue in that you think cropping is somehow dishonest and doesn't reflect the truth of the event or scene?

 

If this is so you come up against a gigantic problem. The photographer just by being there and making a photograph is editing reality and this is exactly the same as further editing/cropping in the darkroom or on the PC.

 

Steve

 

a photographer can choose how to compose a scene any way he wishes. but to crop that composition means he didn't compose correctly in the first place. has nothing to do with the scene, rather, how he chose to capture the scene within the confines of a frame. then to fix that up means he didn't capture the scene how he wanted to in the first place. that's the view i'm looking at it.

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this is what the camera recorded

 

 

 

and this is the picture I was taking in my mind

 

Seems to me that you should have stepped forward by about 5 paces, and got roughly the same (quite nice) final picture. And you would have used to sensor/film to best advantage.

 

Robert Capa said "if your pictures aren't good enough, you are not close enough". Some truth in that, IMO.

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a photographer can choose how to compose a scene any way he wishes. but to crop that composition means he didn't compose correctly in the first place. has nothing to do with the scene, rather, how he chose to capture the scene within the confines of a frame. then to fix that up means he didn't capture the scene how he wanted to in the first place. that's the view i'm looking at it.

 

You obviously didn't read (or understand) all the posts. In mine, for instance, I sometimes deliberately shoot wider than typically needed to leave verticals parallel, and then cropping the foreground. I know exactly how the finished print will look. There is no other way to accomplish this other than using a camera with shift lens, or using other PP software adjustments.

 

In fact, my method is more "straight" photography than using Photoshop adjustments after the fact. I prefer to compose in the camera VF...and in order to avoid converging verticals, this demands shooting wider, keeping the camera level and cropping the foreground. I would argue that this involves more deliberate composition than many other types of shots.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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a photographer can choose how to compose a scene any way he wishes. but to crop that composition means he didn't compose correctly in the first place. has nothing to do with the scene, rather, how he chose to capture the scene within the confines of a frame. then to fix that up means he didn't capture the scene how he wanted to in the first place. that's the view i'm looking at it.

 

I pre-visualise all my photographs, and a lot of photographers do the same. If the frame offered by the camera doesn't correspond to that visualisation how is it possible the camera gains priority over the work you want to do? Who's in charge, the photographer or a machine?

 

We all choose a camera that gets us nearest to what we want, but there is a romantic notion that some cameras offer a truer view of the world than others. Its a myth based on HCB's misunderstood comments about not cropping. A lot of photographers like square format, but square format was chosen by Rollei, Hasselblad etc because it allowed cropping both horizontally and vertically from a camera difficult to use in other orientations. 35mm was chosen for camera use because of similar practical reasons, that film stock was available. It was nothing to do with a 'perfect visual formula' whether we have come to like it or not!

 

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
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Seems to me that you should have stepped forward by about 5 paces, and got roughly the same (quite nice) final picture. And you would have used to sensor/film to best advantage.

 

Robert Capa said "if your pictures aren't good enough, you are not close enough". Some truth in that, IMO.

Agree in general, but in this specific case there was a pointy cast iron fence between me and the action packed scene that prevented this option & I didn't have the time to change the lens. So then you need to compromise or decide not to take the picture. Note that I framed it so that the 28mm image would be nice as well (IMHO) => risk management.

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this is what the camera recorded

4532680948_ace892f05d_b.jpg

 

 

 

 

and this is the picture I was taking in my mind

4532048801_a5cf25d42f_b.jpg

This is not a crop, this is a butchery.;)

For me to crop is to cut 10 or 20% of the picture and it hurts. But in your photo you cut off at least 70%

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So what? He got the image he wanted, and if it is possible to print it well, who cares?

 

I agree....if he would of taken the five steps forward as was earlier mentioned the shot/moment would have gone,then there`d be no shot at all.

 

Andy

 

ps......great debate :-)

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[stands up]

 

"My name is Bill and I crop. My last crop was two weeks ago." :D

 

There. I've said it. There are far worse crimes in photography (HDR, anyone?)

 

Some shots I crop for effect, some to get a tighter composition. Some just would not work without cropping; this for instance:

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Enjoy. Break the rules. We don't all slavishly follow HCB.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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