Don't you think we could stop yelling at Leica?

[tom0511]

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Not anybody want a further camera, Thomas, just a fixed M8 i guess.

 

Difficult to smile when you don't like red-nosed cameras or your dear old Leica lenses can't be used without magenta or cyan cast for lack of coding availability.

Leica has no choice but to find in-camera solutions as soon as possible IMHO.

 

I agree that a manuel mode for correction of cyan cast for third party lenses would be a good thing. This way Leica could keep the big advantage compared to most DSLRs: the ability to use lenses from various brands which is not really possible when shooting with a Canon or Nikon camera.

 

There is NO magenta cast when you use a 486 filter.

The Cyan cast , which appears in my experience mainly when shooting 24mm or wider (the 28mm images I shot so far with filter look fine, maybe different when you shoot a white wall), will be hopefully adresses with firmware.

Overall the tonality looks pretty damn good to me, but maybe its a matter of choice.

I just can recommend to everybody who likes shooting rangefinders to check out the M8, look at the images and compare yourself.

Look at the colors, detail, tones. Judge based on the results and not based on theories.

[lct]

People disliking red filters and color cast are not theoritical i'm afraid, just met one in my mirror this morning.

Leica will find another solution than those red (or blue?) things hopefully.

 

[jaapv]

I shoot professionally and have been using Leica M cameras -- exclusively -- since 1970.

 

I find this camera astonishing.

 

I am exercising patience, however: I have put my 75 'Lux to sleep while waiting for an IR-cut filter for it. I have 486's for the 24, 35-lux, and 50-lux asph's and am using them happily. Actually, I wll do some b/w with the 75 shortly (as soon as the JFI b/w software arrives -- thank you Sean, this is the 3rd purchase I have now made based on your review site -- ReidReviews is far-and-away the most cost effective photog purchase I have ever made!).

 

I wish: (1) the ISO appeared in some visible spot on the exterior of the camera, (2) the shutter were quieter (or a 2-step process as recommended by a several posters in which the cocking step would wait while the release is depressed), (3) these things took longer lenses (I can dream, can't I)

 

However, I am really enjoying: (1) the 10-shot buffer that has freed up my dance shooting and made a significant difference in my ability to keep dancers in the air, (2) using my *wonderful* M-lenses again, (3) the M-like feel of the M8 (it really IS an M!), (4) the Capture One software that I am learning to use: why didn't I think to do a white balance as the first step of all my raw processing?

 

What amazes me the most is the luminance I see in the low-light portions of my images. I have *never* seen this much light in the lower zones, with these same lenses but using film.

 

I have now done 4 shoots with it, 2 of dance, and I have wonderful shots of dancers suspended in the air and displaying intense energy.

 

And, as with the D2, I can handhold at ridiculous speeds like 1/10. About the best I could ever do with my M4 was 1/15 and not dependably.

 

All in all, it is everything I have been looking forward to for the past couple of years. In fact, it has made shooting so much more natureal that I just ordered 2 more Ridata 2gb 150x cards from mwave.

 

Finally, the bride keeps saying, "I'm so glad you got this new camera." Non c'e male! (not so bad)

 

Regards and Happy New Year to a-l-l

 

A very typical post - the users are happy, albeit not blind to the fact nothing in this world is perfect. Congratulations, and hapy to know this camera works for pro's as well.

Good light in the New Year!

[Guest magyarman]

Leica could keep the big advantage compared to most DSLRs: the ability to use lenses from various brands which is not really possible when shooting with a Canon or Nikon camera

 

This truth only of Nikon. Canon DSLR can use many lens, cludid R-Leica, F-Nikon, Zuiko-Olympus, M42 Praktica/Pentax, mabe more that I forgest.

[fotografr]

 

I have now done 4 shoots with it, 2 of dance, and I have wonderful shots of dancers suspended in the air and displaying intense energy.

 

 

Are any of these posted? I'd love to see some.

[kdemas]

Gerard,

 

Thanks for starting this thread asI think many of us have tired a bit of the "piling on" that has gone on regarding the M8. There are issues but I think that for a company Leicas size they have done a nice job trying to correct the various problems that have come to light.

 

Here is the key for everyone out there right now, the term "Early Adopter". As an early adopter, of which I am one owning the M8 since Nov 3rd, you take chances. Bugs, manufacturing defects and other problems are common with the "1st anything" and we are certainly seeing that with the M8. That said, I REALLY think the camera is an incredible tool and for most uses the problems that have been so frequently reported play no part in the usability of the camera (please, if you shoot weddings in incandescent light I KNOW these are big problems for you).

 

As for Leica and the way they have handled themselves, compare them to the way Nikon handled the D70 GBLOD (greeen blinkikng light of death) issue. Nikon had no recall, no correspondence at all with their early adopters, nothing. Instead I got to deal with the camera simply refusing to boot up one morning before a race and I had to shuffle to find a replacement body for my hobby shoot. The same with their pro D2H and the issue they had with some color rendition and dying meters, no pro-active communication and a free repair only if you got ticked and sent it in.

 

So, in a matter of weeks Leica not only aknowledged their problems but also proposed fixes, with some niceties thrown in (30% lens discount) to try to say they're sorry. Pretty decent, or so it seems to me. Sure I wish there were no issues and I didn't have to send the camera in but, my friends, that is the chance I took being an early adopter. Whether a camera or a car if you're not willing to accept a little risk wait until the widget has been in production a while and then buy it.

 

So, may everyone enjoy their M8s who already own them and hopefully everyone will get to try out this terrific tool some time in the future.

 

I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday season and may the New Year find you all healthy and happy.

 

Kent

[farnz]

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(snipped)

Here is the key for everyone out there right now, the term "Early Adopter". As an early adopter, of which I am one owning the M8 since Nov 3rd, you take chances. Bugs, manufacturing defects and other problems are common with the "1st anything" and we are certainly seeing that with the M8. (snipped)

 

Kent,

 

I totally agree with you and early failure is a well-understood and documented phenomenon that follows the 'bathtub curve' as described in this link:

 

The Bathtub Curve and Product Failure Behavior (Part 1 of 2)

 

(Note: "infant mortality" does not refer to children.)

 

Pete.

[tom0511]

People disliking red filters and color cast are not theoritical i'm afraid, just met one in my mirror this morning.

Leica will find another solution than those red (or blue?) things hopefully.

 

 

The question for me is: How big would be the influence on the final result-the image?

 

For 28mm and longer the final result looks very good to me, and in most images/scenes I dont even see the cyan corners.

For 24mm it clearly shows up, but this should hopeully be not a problem once 1.10 is out.

 

So far in my experience few people realize the color of the filter when you photograph them, and I would think thatthe red filter draws much less attention than a "huge" SLR+Lens.

 

Of course everybody can decide if he accepts the solution or not, but if you accept it you can get images with the M8 which are of great image quality, and you can digitally "shoot" people less obstrusive compared to DSLRs.

[Guest stnami]

red hues when isolated from similiar hues are actually annoying to the eye.. it's just the nature of the colour a problem not unique to filters

[lct]

...compare them to the way Nikon handled the D70 GBLOD (greeen blinkikng light of death) issue. Nikon had no recall, no correspondence at all with their early adopters, nothing....

This bug is repaired for free by Nikon:

http://tinyurl.com/ycvezo

http://tinyurl.com/bgv4g

Mine occurred more than 2 years after the purchase.

Got it fixed in 2 weeks with no problem at all.

[spersky]

Don't these digital camera makers take pictures of a color swatch during development. Then don't they compare the colors they get to the actual colors on the swatch. The black is purple issue did not show up at all on any of these tests?

[larry]

Don't these digital camera makers take pictures of a color swatch during development. Then don't they compare the colors they get to the actual colors on the swatch. The black is purple issue did not show up at all on any of these tests?

 

Of course they do, but the magenta cast only appears on certain synthetic fabrics when shot under incandescent light. This isn't a situation that would normally be set up when testing a sensor for color balance.

 

Now that I have an M8, I've seen the magenta cast in a number of my photos. Leica is providing two free filters to solve the problem, and that's good enough for me. Maybe the best solution is for us to all start wearing "natural" fabrics, such as cotton and wool. ;-)

 

Frankly, I've encountered worse problems -- or at least more annoying problems -- with every other digital camera I've purchased. The positive aspects of the M8 far outweigh the few problems it exhibits.

 

Larry

[Eoin]

Of course they do, but the magenta cast only appears on certain synthetic fabrics when shot under incandescent light.....Snip

 

Not exactly true, The magent cast appears in Daylight (natural lit) situations also.

[larry]

Not exactly true, The magent cast appears in Daylight (natural lit) situations also.

 

Funny, this hasn't happened to me. Have you experienced this problem?

 

Larry

[mjh]

This bug is repaired for free by Nikon:

Search Digital KDB

Answer

Mine occurred more than 2 years after the purchase.

Got it fixed in 2 weeks with no problem at all.

Sure, but it took Nikon a couple of months to respond to the problem – cameras had started to fail with these symptoms about one year after its introduction. By the time your camera developed the problem, everything had been sorted out nicely.

[Eoin]

It has happened a lot, I also found AWB unusable for consistant WBal even in natural daylight. Anyway pictures speak louder than words, the lacy top was black but it's renderd with magenta here. Tropical daylight about 3.30pm taken with a coded 75AA without filter.

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[larry]

It has happened a lot, I also found AWB unusable for consistant WBal even in natural daylight. Anyway pictures speak louder than words, the lacy top was black but it's renderd with magenta here. Tropical daylight about 3.30pm taken with a coded 75AA without filter.

 

Eoin,

 

Thanks, I'll keep my eyes open for this. And you're right, pictures do speak louder than words (nice shot)!

 

Larry

[wparsonsgisnet]

Are any of these posted? I'd love to see some.

 

I posted one here -- (number 32)

 

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/11471-my-m8-arrived-2.html

[johnastovall]

Of course they do, but the magenta cast only appears on certain synthetic fabrics when shot under incandescent light. This isn't a situation that would normally be set up when testing a sensor for color balance.

 

snipped

 

Larry

 

Recall Guy M. posting the standard GM color chart shot under sunlight and the magenta cast was evident. And it's not just black but any object that reflects back IR, green grass and leaves are not correctly rendered. Leica's statement about "synthetic fabrics" indicated to me they didn't understand the problem at all or wouldn't admit it.

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Hallo,

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