Don't you think we could stop yelling at Leica?

[egibaud]

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[mitchell]

My big complaint with my M8 is that it's now in Solms.

 

My only peeve with Leica is the marketers belittled some of the problems, but I'm glad the engineers are taking them seriously.

 

The following image shows streaking which will be solved when the camera comes back, but it also shows some of the potiential and how much fun this camera is to use.

 

Thanks for starting this thread.

 

Best,

 

Mitchell

 

 

 

 

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[mwilliamsphotography]

Yes, the ornament is just a snapshot as you so snidely indicated, and yes, everyone knows this camera of mine has yet to go back for the hardware "upgrade". But there isn't any horizontal banding in this shot other than the ambient background stuff thrown out of focus.

 

The Specular highlights comment is of course exaggerated. Specular highlights are reflections on an object, and the only ones that are blown out are ones that would be anyway due to the original sources' intensity ... but you knew that.

 

The bulbs are light sources, not specular highlights which by defination are reflections. If you are shooting available light, and want a back-lit subject to show up, you sometimes have to sacrifice something ... like the back lighting .. but you knew that also.

 

Sorry, I don't see any green blobs, just green tree where the lights are ... but I did see the small spots to the left, which indeed are most likely reflections ... I get that with my Canon 85/1.2 also, only worse.

 

RE: "First time what you find it bunch of fotos from pay job wedding is ruin it because make from this filters reflection spots from up above lights..."

 

I'm not worried, so why should you be? I've already done two paying jobs with the M8 and so far it's worked out ... despite lights from above, below and on the side ... including chandeliers, candles and strobes. So, you can sleep worry free tonight my friend ... I know I will.

 

The point was, the horse is DEAD. It's not like the camera can't take any photo, it needs fixed, they are working on it. BEATING the DEAD horse won't make it move any faster : -)

 

BTW, I like the look of the stuff from this camera (frankly, better than from my more expensive Canon). My clients like the M8 images also, so all the rest is irrelevant.

[Guest stnami]

les mêmes mêmes mais différent

[mitchell]

Chris,

 

Sean, Guy and Jamie who you rightfully praise are all professional photographers who use Leica in their work. Guy uses Leica exclusively.

 

Best,

 

Mitchell

[Eoin]

Nice to see you yelling amongst yourselves. The M8 is as much an emotive issue as is peoples admiration of the Company.

 

People will stop discussing the flaws of the M8 when and only when Leica fix the issues.

The discussions we have had or read on the forum should have been of some benifit to Leica, as a means to identify what issues users are having, to gauge users reaction to the camera overall, to learn what features or modifications users would like in or to the menus.

 

But the reality is, that for Leica it has been a case of how not to wash your laundry in public and given the fact that there was only one offical Company statement to the users "A message to Leica M8 users" which to my mind glossed over the obvious flaws(design decisions) and failed to mention other known flaws, requireing your camera to be sent back for upgrade, what do you expect?. We just sit and wait, while not saying anything that may upset Leica.

 

I question if the members who advocate such restraint exercised the same restraint with every product that may not have met their expectations in the past, somehow I doubt it.

 

No, This matter will only fade away when people get what they thought they originaly paid for. A Leica digital rangfinder of such quality it has the right to bare the Leica name.

[wbesz]

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Fully agree Gerard!

 

I prefer the happy side and see the glass as half full.

[fotografr]

I do not know, and I have never met a professional photographer who uses Leica for professional work.

....................Chris

 

That is one of the most astounding statements I've ever read on this forum. There are many professionals on this forum alone who use Leica for their professional work. I'm one of them. Additionally, I know many other Leica pros who don't participate in this forum. To assert that the reliability and quality of Leica products don't meet professional standards is utterly preposterous.

[woodyspedden]

It is wonderful to read this thread. The proof of the pudding is always in the eating. The M8 makes wonderful files and no it is not perfect. But it surely beats the alternatives.

 

I was testing an Olympus lens on my 1DsMkII today and noticed that there was a great deal of purple fringing at high contrast junctions with highlights close to 255, 255, 255. I was so concerned that I took the same shots using the DMR. (Not with the Oly lens but with the 28mm Elmarit) Absolutely no purple fringing at all. So I again took test shots with the 1DS but now with the Elmarit. Purple fringing galore. I am not knocking the 1Ds but it is clear that sensor bloom is alive and well. (CMOS). No such effect with the DMR (CCD). Leica has done so much that is right with the DMR and the M8 they should be congratulated, and then reminded that the job is not yet complete.

 

I have attached two M8 shots for your enjoyment.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

 

Woody Spedden

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[ChrisC]

That is one of the most astounding statements I've ever read on this forum. There are many professionals on this forum alone who use Leica for their professional work. I'm one of them. Additionally, I know many other Leica pros who don't participate in this forum. To assert that the reliability and quality of Leica products don't meet professional standards is utterly preposterous.

 

Brent - So there are many professionals on this forum using Leica. So what? I haven't met them either. I merely stated a fact of my experience, not yours, that I have never known a professional photographer who used or uses Leica gear for professional work, though that's only over a 30 year span. But hey, the good thing is that when my M8 arrives I'll know a professional using Leica so I'll be able to talk to myself safe in the knowledge that I will not misrepresent my own views on Leica. You went to the trouble of quoting, and then entirely misrepresented me by attributing to me an assertion that is your invention. Now that's preposterous.

 

..........................Chris

 

PS - I really like the canyon shot above Woody

[AlanG]

Yes, the ornament is just a snapshot as you so snidely indicated,

 

Very sorry, I wasn't trying to be snide. I just said that when I first looked at the picture it looked fine to me. I simply saw it as kind of a fun holiday snapshot not as something presented to show anything specific about the camera or photographer. I certainly didn't scrutinize it until another person said he saw something.

 

I believe specular highlights can be reflections or light sources. (As in light sources being either diffuse or specular.) I didn't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with specular light sources such as these lights lacking detail. My point was that since they were already blown out, the white point and the center point could be dragged over to the left a little on the histogram to open up some more detail. I think it would look better that way, in my opinion. As a matter of fact, most of the night shots I've seen posted here and many other places are a little too dark. (Again this is just what I personally like.)

 

The amazing thing I've observed with digital photography is that the shadow detail in night shots and other scenes can be opened up a bit for a new look that was hard to achieve on film without supplementary lighting. . (Closer to how our eyes see.)

 

Again, sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.

[abrewer]

Just a reminder, and not directed at anyone in particular...

 

Please recall from the Forum Rules that disputes between members will not be tolerated. Please take your discussion in this regard offline or use the "Ignore" function as appropriate.

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[mwilliamsphotography]

AlanG, no problem.

 

As I understand it, a specular highlight is a reflected light not a light source. It's a highlight, so that makes sense no? Google it, and you'll see what I mean.

 

But I do understand your point that the whole image could be pushed to the right a tad without much penalty on the light sources. I tend to like darker stuff, which at print size looks pretty cool, yet might not look so good squashed down on the internet.

[Guest stevenrk]

The point was, the horse is DEAD.

 

Yes. Exactly. Unfortunate.

[Sandokan]

Am I the only one who looks forward to one of these early M8's appearing on eBay in a few years time at a much reduced price and then using it with a visible light filter and getting IR images?

[anupmc]

No.

 

Am I the only one who looks forward to one of these early M8's appearing on eBay in a few years time at a much reduced price and then using it with a visible light filter and getting IR images?

[hammam]

Gérard, I agree 1000000000 % with you

 

... Here there are 2 types of negative writers, some have bought an M8, often for specific jobs, and they were very disapointed with the results in some situation (IR mainly)

 

Other type were the ones who did not buy an M8 yet, some have not even thought about it either but they just have fun at shoting at Leica and showing how crazy we are to their eyes spending so much money...

 

 

...without forgeting that Nikon and Canon make their clients' lenses not as backward compatible as what Leica is doing (back to 1954), coding a Leica lense cost around 100 $... buying a new Canon / Nikon lense for a digital body slightly more expensive !

 

There are also people who have made a big deposit on the M8 (I did, in the form of gear I traded in for it), who are still awaiting the arrival of their much anticipated digital Leica rangefinder, and who find themselves worrying every day as to what problems their particular model will show. It's an all new experience in my life (I'm over 60) to order an expensive product and have this unpleasant gut feeling that somewhow it won't work.

 

As for «backward compatibility» maybe you've never heard of the Nikon F mount.

[Your Old Dog]

I agree, and have stated so on this forum previously. I think if these folks who can't get past the early problems owned Nikon D200's and saw Nikon's treatment of the issue they would thank Leica for being so upfront with them. I do not own a Leica but I do own a Nikon. I know more about Leica's problem then Nikons and I heard it from Leica Inc. I admire this company's ethical perspective to it's client base.

 

Nikon has said next to nothing about the banding problems of their D200 (which I do own) and I believe that what little they have said is suspect.

 

But you know, the web, with the anonymity that it affords, allows everyone to feel like Conan the Barbarian if they want. Even folks who haven't a clue what they are talking about.

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[hammam]

Oh, and BTW, Eric, not only are Nikon DSLRs perfectly backward compatible with every past and future F mount lens, but the «coding» is included in the menu system of both the D2X and D200, so that you can mount older manual AI/AI-S lenses, program them in software and keep all metering options.

[xrogers]

Thank you, Gerard.

 

Clyde Rogers