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Poll for Article - M8 Vertical Band


sean_reid

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First, I ask that people only reply to this thread if they are currently using an M8 with the "hardware fixes". There are already other threads running where one can make general comments on this issue. Thanks in advance for keeping this thread on topic.

 

I want to get a sense of how wide-spread this vertical band problem is and how much it seems to vary from camera to camera and so have the following questions for owners of "fixed" or "new generation" M8s:

 

1. Have you seen the vertical band (discussed elsewhere on this forum) in your particular M8?

 

2. If yes, does it appear in properly-exposed pictures using your normal workflow? If so, at what ISO does it begin and how intense is it at each ISO? Picture samples welcome. About what percentage of your normal pictures made with the M8 show this band?

 

3. If the band only appears when you specifically test for it (alternate workflows, turning off default noise filters in RAW conversion, boosting EV levels or brightness, etc.), at what ISO does it begin and how intense is it at each ISO? Do you need to "torture" the file a bit to see it? What must you do to the file in order for this to be apparent?

 

Thanks!

 

Sean

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For me the vertical banding appears only in torture tests and only appears for the first few shots after the camera has been left unused, after that the banding disappears even in torture tests. I have posted examples in the thread entitled “M8 dark frames, vertical bands, possible 1.09 issue” and posted a summary of my results in that thread which I am reproducing here again:

 

New Camera m8 (not a fixed one), v1.09, delivered yesterday (Dec. 20). I am using both C1 Pro and Photoshop SC2/CS3. All give identical results for me in these tests. 1/30 sec, lens with cap, dng, ISO2500.

 

I could not reproduce the vertical banding last night (please see post #6 in this thread) even though I tired. Today (Dec. 21) in the morning I could reproduce it only in the morning for the first few shots at ISO 2500 pushed +4 stops, after those few shots the vertical banding disappeared completely; please see post #21). Note how the banding is there on frame #83 (pushed 4 stops) and disappears on frame#84 also pushed +4 stops (after that frame it disappeared altogether). Also note that frame #83 with the vertical band is much darker than frame #84 without the band; I wonder if that is telling us something?

 

It is important to note that for my camera, when I can reproduce the vertical band (which happened for only a few shots in the morning), it is only under extreme exposure conditions of dark frames at ISO2500 that are pushed +4 stops. This vertical band does not appear for me in normal shooting conditions and therefore <for me> it is not an issue at all.

 

Hope this summary helps.

 

Furrukh

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Furrukh,

 

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the feedback.

 

To All,

 

Furrukh is an old friend of mine, a professor and wizard with technology and a very talented amateur photographer. He just bought an M8 and I'm glad to see him here.

 

I'll say no more lest I take us off topic.

 

Please keep the on-topic responses coming in. The more information I have, the more accurately I can describe the problem in the article.

 

Thanks,

 

Sean

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Sean,

 

As you know, mine is exhibiting the vertical band on a new generation 1.09 camera.

 

I have seen it mainly at 640 & 1250. It is barely visible "sometimes" at 320. I really have not shot the M8 at 2500.

 

As I posted in another thread, I normally need to dial in -1/3 EV with this camera and the B+W IR cut filters, but these photos have been with 0 EV (so are slightly overexposed by 1/3 stop).

 

All my shots have been RAW only, I have not even played with any jpegs out of the camera as that is not my workflow.

 

I have tried the default processing in both C1 3.7.6 and ACR 3.6 with no adjustments to EV or curves. The band shows regardless of Raw processor.

 

My camera seems to exhibit the issue whether it is just turned on or I have taken many shots.

 

As ISO increases, the band increases in intensity.

 

The band seems to increase in intensity on my camera when not using the B+W IR cut filter.

 

The band can be seen in virtually all of my photos taken in indoor lighting or outside in low light situations, to some extent. It is not apparent in daylight exterior shots (which are normally 160 or 320 ISO).

 

I have not done any of the lens cap/black frame test shots.

 

Ray

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Accept that it's relevant to ask about modified cameras in normal shooting conditions, but here's a simple re-create to see if your camera does it at all...

 

- ISO 2500, body cap on

- Shoot at 1/15 and 1/60

- Open both DNG images in C1 and boost EV by +2.5 stops

 

No one should see it at 1/15 but early cameras (1.06/1.09) see it on 1/60 (or at least mine does).

 

Do modified cameras show the same result?

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First, I ask that people only reply to this thread if they are currently using an M8 with the "hardware fixes". There are already other threads running where one can make general comments on this issue. Thanks in advance for keeping this thread on topic.

 

I want to get a sense of how wide-spread this vertical band problem is and how much it seems to vary from camera to camera and so have the following questions for owners of "fixed" or "new generation" M8s:

[ snipped]

Thanks!

 

Sean

Sean,

 

Why are you limiting the discussion to cameras with the "new" processor board? The "vertical band" exists in the first rev too, thus a faulty conclusion may be drawn that this banding was introduced with the "new" processor board, or f/w.

 

rgds,

Dave

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Hi Mark,

 

Thanks for a useful example of a torture test that may reveal this problem. The second shutter speed might also be 1/125, for example. I'm expecting to sort the responses into three categories (each with more detailed info.):

 

1. Camera does not seem to show vertical band at all.

2. Camera shows band in normal use with normal subjects and normal workflow.

3. Camera shows band when torture tested.

 

Thanks for the on-topic responses folks and please keep them coming. Details of the problem (for those who are seeing it) are welcome but general discussion of this aspect is best saved for another thread.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Accept that it's relevant to ask about modified cameras in normal shooting conditions, but here's a simple re-create to see if your camera does it at all...

 

- ISO 2500, body cap on

- Shoot at 1/15 and 1/60

- Open both DNG images in C1 and boost EV by +2.5 stops

 

No one should see it at 1/15 but early cameras (1.06/1.09) see it on 1/60 (or at least mine does).

 

Do modified cameras show the same result?

 

- Final step: Make sure there are no vertical stripes on the inside of your body cap.

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Sean,

 

Why are you limiting the discussion to cameras with the "new" processor board? The "vertical band" exists in the first rev too, thus a faulty conclusion may be drawn that this banding was introduced with the "new" processor board, or f/w.

 

rgds,

Dave

 

Dave,

 

I haven't drawn any conclusion at all yet but if people with first generation M8s are seeing this particular kind of vertical band also then I would like to hear from them as well. Just to be thorough, when you respond, please first describe which of the following applies to your camera. Obviously, describing your firmware version isn't enough information.

 

First Gen. camera with firmware 1.06

First Gen. camera with firmware 1.09

Second Gen. camera with firmware 1.09

 

That essentially opens the poll up to all current M8 owners. Again, thanks to all for staying on topic. Lurkers, come on out!

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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No vertical banding.

 

I did the lens cap torture test this AM after loading new firmware.

 

Medium and long shutter speeds, all ISOs including 2500.

 

Pushed the files in C-1 and ACR.

 

Nothing.

 

With IR filters in place, I have no problems with this camera.

 

Unless I discover something different, I won't send this camera back to Leica for "upgrading".

 

I just want my two 46mm black IRs from them.

 

Between now and the M9, I hope to never talk to Leica service.

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No vertical banding.

 

I did the lens cap torture test this AM after loading new firmware.

 

Medium and long shutter speeds, all ISOs including 2500.

 

Pushed the files in C-1 and ACR.

 

Nothing.

 

With IR filters in place, I have no problems with this camera.

 

Unless I discover something different, I won't send this camera back to Leica for "upgrading".

 

I just want my two 46mm black IRs from them.

 

Between now and the M9, I hope to never talk to Leica service.

 

Hi Marc,

 

Thanks. So that's a first gen. camera with 1.09, right?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Sean--

 

First generation camera, 1.09:

 

--vertical band is visible faintly at 2500 in normal exposure

--vertical band is definitely visible with +2.5 EC correction in C1 from ISO 640 up

 

I didn't notice it at all in 1.06; though the few really high ISO shots I made there were not underexposed and I haven't had time to go back and push them :)

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Sean,

Since you asked for others to contribute....

 

First gen, f/w 1.06:

-vertical band in some shots at higher ISO, mainly with dark background (night sky), 1/60s shutter speeds and if pushed a couple of stops in C1, ACR and RAW Developer. Did not try "torture test" before firmware update.....sorry.

 

First gen, f/w 1.09:

-vertical band easily produced with "torture test" at all ISOs, but strongest at ISO 1250. I can also get the band on regular shooting at higher ISO, darker backgrounds, shutter speeds around 1/60 - 1/90s, and pushing the exposure in C1, ACR or RAW Developer.

-have not seen the vertical band at lower shutter speeds where NR kicks in

-does not matter if IR/UV cut filter is on or off for shooting, that I can tell at this point.

 

LJ

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First Gen. camera with firmware 1.06

 

[All with cap on, Raw, 1/2000 s]

 

in C1 Pro:

vertical band is clearly visible at 2500 with normal exposure (for some reason worse in some pics than others)

vertical band is slightly visible at 640 with normal camera exposure + an additional +2.5 in C1

 

Also:

at 2500 and +3 comp, vert band visible on rear LCD

 

*Edit* After a few further tests, even with identical artificial lighting, vert banding at 2500 cannot be reliably reproduced in real life pics (as opposed to "cap on" pics)

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