A hand with VueScan please?

[Julian Thompson]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I understand.

 

You can adjust curves in Epsonscan no problem. You can't select multi pass scanning or tiff reduction I don't think though.

 

Thing is, as you say, Epsonscan is producing quality results right off the scanner with no input from the user. Vuescan has the tools in the toolbox but I don't appear good enough with RGB to put those tools to work!

[plasticman]

Julian - not able to help you really in any practical way as I don't own a scanner, but I'd just thought I'd say that (based on these rather small jpegs anyway) the Epson scan appears vastly superior in apparent detail, color and 'dimensionality' - and by that I mean the Vuescan images seem very flat and unrealistic in comparison with the Epson file.

 

I understand you must be pleased with Vuescan's scratch removal and so on, but maybe these averaging or smoothing algorithms are also doing something destructive to the texture and detail of the images?

 

Just my impression based on the three images you posted above.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Julian Thompson]

Hmmn yes I understand - but the truth is that I have just done a scan in EpsonScan which has the 'auto processing' algorithm turned off and it's clear that that algorithm is actually applying quite a bit of processing to get the look I presented here - it's mainly sharpening and saturation.

 

Truth is having played with the un-auto processed Epson Scan output it is now blindingly clear that it is MY lack of RGB skill that is failing here rather than Vuescan!

[adan]

Color negs are almost always tricky to scan. Basically the orange masking is very hard for scanners and scanning software to interpret. It really is a mask, not just an overall orange tint, so it can cause crossover problems, usually green/cyan/blue highlights, which are hard to correct without introducing magenta or red casts in the midtones/shadows. And since it is created in the development stage it can vary slightly from roll to roll even of the same film - thus it cannot be profiled away.

 

Vuescan in particular is not great with negs. It has some "canned" profiles - but mostly for films years to decades gone (Vericolor II !?)

 

Below I have reposted Julian's second image - uncorrected Vuescan original - with my own corrections. Which are about what I normally have to do with many color neg scans from any source. The fixes were made in Photoshop, but I assume LightRoom or Aperture have similar comtrols. The corrections:

 

1. Used "Hue/Saturation" to heavily desaturate the cyans (64 points)

 

2. Set "Levels" automatically, with the options set to "Enhance per-channel contrast" - this moved the red highlight point (204) and green highlight point (224) up to match the blue highlight point (254), which cleared out a lot more of the blue/cyan cast linearly.

 

3. Used "Curves" to raise the midtone brightness to match the EpsonScan image, and also increase the contrast in the midtones a bit further.

 

4. Used "Hue/Saturation" to shift the yellow hues towards red, which cleaned out further green tints in the toy(phone?), skin, hair, woodwork, and outdoor trees.

 

5. Used "Color balance" to put a bit of cyan back INTO the shadows, and blue in the midtones - just a couple of points worth.

 

6. Used "Hue/Saturation", using the eyedropper tool within that dialogue to select for the blue/magentas in the shadows of the baby suit, to shift those hues towards blue (Hue slider to the left).

 

I'm not sure the result is perfect, especially working from a small jpegged original, but it seems closer to the EpsonScan original. But those are a basis for experimentation.

 

One advantage to Vuescan is that it is kept current with changes to operating systems (e.g Snow Leopard, or Photoshop CS4 which no longer supports Twain scanning plugins) and you get upgrades for life if you buy the pro version. Nikon has not updated NikonScan for Macs since 2005, and does not intend to, so eventually it won't run anymore. Epson also does not update software for older scanners (like my 3800 from 2003). Minolta is no longer in the scanner business at all. So I'm glad I have it tucked away for the future.

 

One Vuescan point - you might try playing with the white balance and other color control sliders while making the scan. They do help in at least getting the overall tonality and contrast right.

 

Another Vuescan point - the purpose of saving as RAW is not (as previously mentioned) for the same purposes as shooting raw with a digital camera. Instead it is so that you can reopen a scan in Vuescan and change the color balance and other slider settings at a later time. You can bang off a dozen raw scans - and then come back later and spend hours playing with the settings to improve the basic scan before taking it to LR ot Photoshop or whatever.

 

However, if you scan in 16-bit (or 8-bit, but 16-bit makes even more sense in this workflow) and then save the scan as a DNG - you can then open it in Adobe Camera Raw just as though it was a camera .dng, and use the various Camera Raw tools (lens corrections, white balance, etc.)

 

Personally - I just use NikonScan with my Nikon 9000ED - for some reason it seems more stable even under Snow Leopard using the 9000's Firewire connection than it did with my USB 5000ED. I prefer the interface to Vuescan, especially the much more sophisticated curves controls. But eventually Vuewscan will be the only option.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[roguewave]

Julian, I also have the same scanner. Most important to "profile" the film you use. Take a frame or 2 & experiment with ALL the sliders in the "Color" tab. Use the Pro Photo color space, which has the widest gamut. Once you start getting the results you want, start saving the profiles. You might start to think about how you scan in the service of getting the details you want & then "constructing" the image in PS, with curves.

 

The beauty of the Epson scanner is that the scans are flatter & not sharpened. I like that because I get to choose what details & elements to highlight, not the algorithm in the software. It takes a bit more time, but you get what you want.

[Julian Thompson]

Andy - all I can say is WOW.

 

I have spent a lot of time and got nowhere near that.

 

I really knew it was me that was at fault!

 

Have not properly digested your invaluable comments but I will, in depth.

 

Thanks so much. Truly grateful for your assistance.

[Tim B]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've found this of great help to do an initial profile of a colour neg. film. I'm sure someone on the forum pointed me to it and it was a great relief! You can then save the profile for future use with similar emulsions.

 

Better colour neg scanning with VueScan. | Urban Motion

 

Look in particular at the "Film profiles suck" section.

 

I hope I'm not duplicating info here, but after Andy's excellent and exhaustive post it might offer a shortcut or two.

 

Tim (another Vuescan learner of many years)

Edited April 7, 2010 by Tim B

[Julian Thompson]

Very helpful Tim.

 

On Andy's corrective work about the little plastic mobile phone that my son is holding has gone orange rather than green at some point in the proceedings. It's amazing how one correction can uncorrect something else - it's all interlocked !

 

@Rob - are you saying you use Epsonscan or Vuescan? I suspect Vuescan because the Epson scan software appears to add it's own 'definition' to a scan even when all options are turned off. This is one reason I would really like to nail Vuescan.