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Newbie wonders if M8 might be 'too much'


mmanda

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Hello!

 

I've been lurking on this site for some months now. Trying to soak up all the info I can on these great machines!

 

I have owned a Canon 40D and a few lenses for about 2.5 years. In that time I've used it alot around the home... and 'played' with it lots. But find I'm very hesitant to take it on holidays or go out and shoot photos with it, due to the cumbersome size and weight of it. I don't want to go out hiking or exploring a new City with some 5kg of camera on my back!!!

 

I've been longing for something a bit more compact to shoot with but still want that DSLR speed and feel! Like alot of us do :D

 

I'm very much a beginner when it comes to photography and sometimes feel that I've not really explorered the 40D to its fullest - due to the reasons mentioned above.

 

Is the M8 a good tool to help teach a beginner? I've handled one and loved the feel and look of it. I'd love to hear from anyone else that had a similar background to me prior to purchasing a M8 and how did they find it. Did the ownership of the Leica and it's more compact styling reignite your desire to shooot and learn???

 

The used M8 is a significant purchase and want to ensure I make a informed decision to purchase one. I was considering the X1 but the cost is very similar between the 2. If I went X1 can't help but feel I'd be longing for the M8 anyways. Both is not an option.

 

Does the M8 attract attention when you are out using it?

 

Thanks in advance for any guidance you may provide ;)

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You'd be surprised - In general peop[le the world over think you are shooting something you inherited from your great-uncle. As for overkill? I doubt it. The whole concept of an M camera makes it an ideal tool to learn about photography from the ground up. No handy automation to dumb your mind down. A frustrating learning curve? yes. A satisfying experience? - even more so.

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and was surprised at how it stood out. People were always looking at it. In the group I was traveling with everyone knew about Leica.

 

Frankly with all the publicity behind the M9 I think that many more in the US are becoming interested.

 

Something that worked for me, I put black tape on the logos and at least that signaled that I did not want to talk about it.

 

My camera too is on a brown Luigi case, and people always comment that it looks expensive.

 

So no way about it, it is still much less obtrusive than any DSLR.

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I think the most important fact that makes Leica rangefinders better than the 5Dii and 1Ds x I've used in the past is this: I like it more. This is not a spec or a quantifiable measure, but I think its one of the main reasons why to me, Leica is leaps and bounds better than the dSLRs. My M8 inspires me to get off my ass and go out, walk around, and take photos.

 

And that's not just the case for M8s, it is true for any Leica camera. So which one you pick is terribly personal. In the past, I have found that when it comes to Leica, you should satisfy your lustful heart and not listen to your overly reasonable mind.

 

So if I understand correctly, you are choosing between the X1 and M8? The price are definitely not similar. A used M8 setup will probably run you in the 4000USD neighborhood, while the X1 if half of that but comes with a prolonged waiting period. To me, I feel like the M8 is a proven tool, it has been around for a while and people generally love it, the X1 is a little too fresh to be certain just yet. Also, the M8 also allows for expansion with more lenses.

 

I think the decision to buy a Leica and which Leica is too personal, a good way to test out the waters is to try to get your hands on one for a week or so. Be it through rental or borrowing from a friend, and try things out for yourself. If the M8 is good for you, go for it; if it is too much, go for an X1 or DLUX4 or a used D2; if Leica is not your thing, no harm no foul.

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You'd be surprised - In general peop[le the world over think you are shooting something you inherited from your great-uncle. As for overkill? I doubt it. The whole concept of an M camera makes it an ideal tool to learn about photography from the ground up. No handy automation to dumb your mind down. A frustrating learning curve? yes. A satisfying experience? - even more so.

 

Thinking about it. I'd have to get out there and learn learn learn. Might look at joining a local Camera club and doing some courses. If I go this route, I'll just have to make more effort that I have been with the 40D.

 

Actually owning a more portible camera will help with that.. means I can put it in my bag everyday!

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I think the most important fact that makes Leica rangefinders better than the 5Dii and 1Ds x I've used in the past is this: I like it more. This is not a spec or a quantifiable measure, but I think its one of the main reasons why to me, Leica is leaps and bounds better than the dSLRs. My M8 inspires me to get off my ass and go out, walk around, and take photos.

 

And that's not just the case for M8s, it is true for any Leica camera. So which one you pick is terribly personal. In the past, I have found that when it comes to Leica, you should satisfy your lustful heart and not listen to your overly reasonable mind.

 

So if I understand correctly, you are choosing between the X1 and M8? The price are definitely not similar. A used M8 setup will probably run you in the 4000USD neighborhood, while the X1 if half of that but comes with a prolonged waiting period. To me, I feel like the M8 is a proven tool, it has been around for a while and people generally love it, the X1 is a little too fresh to be certain just yet. Also, the M8 also allows for expansion with more lenses.

 

I think the decision to buy a Leica and which Leica is too personal, a good way to test out the waters is to try to get your hands on one for a week or so. Be it through rental or borrowing from a friend, and try things out for yourself. If the M8 is good for you, go for it; if it is too much, go for an X1 or DLUX4 or a used D2; if Leica is not your thing, no harm no foul.

 

Thanks Eddie. You are right, the prices aren't similar. The used M8 body and a X1 are similarly priced but not with the glass I'll need. I was going to start off with something compact and simple for my first lens the Voigtlander 35mm F2.5 pancake I think its called. So my comment was based loosely on that.

 

It'll be some months before I can handle the X1 and borrowing either Cam is not going to be an option for me. The market here is far too small to be able to rent them.

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i went down the same path. the X1 caught my eye and sparked a flame inside me to pick up a leica. i ended up getting a used demo set up with a 12 month leica warranty for about $3,850 (M8+50sum-6bit). personally i know its close to double, but it just did not seem that way. 2k is a ton of money for a camera, especially the X1 to me for the money the M8 is the better choice. and if i did not like the set up i could always sell it used and not get hurt too badly.

 

with that said i could not be happier and it is the perfect camera to learn and improve your skills. i was shooting a panisonic dmc-fz20, an great camera for my messy outdoors field use. the x1 sparked my interest to step up my game, but rather than just go out and splurge 2k i borrowed my brothers cannon XTi with a few lens (the nifty fifty was my favorite) just to see if i would like something other than a point and shoot. i shot that camera for 3 months or so and decided i could handle more than just a point and shoot, so i go the M8. for me the compact size (vs. the DSLR) is a huge advantage. also, i love the manual controls. the DSLR's menus and advanced controls are limitless and i felt so disconnected and not part of the photo taking experience. i hated that about the DSLR. with the m8 if you make a mistake you know why, with the dslr there seemed to be a limitless number of things you could have set wrong. i think the m8 is the perfect tool to help strengthen and build basic skills. there is a learning curve with the MF, but it seems to go quickly.

 

as for standing out, i have mixed feelings about this. i shoot 3 days a week in mexico. i would say that the m8 attracts attention, but i dont think anyone realizes the true cost of the camera. i dont think it draws nearly the heat or negative attention that a DSLR with a tele lens draws. to most people that screams professional. the m8 just has a sort of sex appeal or spirit about it, but not in a negative way. it has such a nostalgic look that most people think your just a normal guy using some old camera. but i will add it does get noticed. i took it on a field trip with my 7 year old daughter and one of her class mates kept following me around saying " cool camera, what can it do? "

 

i would go for it. you wont regret the purchase or the experience, and if you do you can always sell it with out taking a beating.

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Any Leica M camera is a perfect tool to learn photography, and if you are already skilled on the basics of Digital Workflow, a good used M8 can be a very smart choice: simple, compact, un-intrusive, hardly makes you recognized as "one with a camera to take photos"... you are one that happens to have a camera which sometimes bring to your eye to shot. Of course (see this forum... :D) M8 is NOT ONLY A CAMERA FOR LEARNING: take one, take the 35 you mention (or a 24/25/28) and can be that in some time you get hooked to the tool... and maybe hooked to this forum too, in which all of us warmly welcome you.

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I had pretty much the exact same experience as bmc: was initially attracted by the X1 as a replacement for my DSLR system but ended up going for a second-hand M8.2. My motivation was similar to the OP's: the big camera plus all its associated gear was a real disincentive to going out and taking photos. The Leica travels with me pretty much everywhere now. It has definitely reignited my love of photography. It's also a great camera with which to learn because it forces you to focus on essentials: composition and exposure. By putting the choices in the hand of the photographer it forces the photographer to think and to learn. So many DSLR users despite their interest never graduate beyond using auto functions. You'll get so much more from the Leica, even though the learning curve is quite sharp and there will be plenty of frustration. It's not magic, it won't necessarily take better photos than your DSLR (and don't expect "DSLR speed" - certainly not until you've mastered the art of zone focusing), but you will enjoy it far more as a tool and it will help you grow as a photographer.

 

(Top tip - when you get your M8 do *not* select A on the shutter speed dial - get used to going manual right from the outset.)

 

As for the reactions it gets - it's usually "oh what a nice old classic camera" - I haven't had anyone say "oooh a digital Leica" yet but that may be because I mostly shoot in the UK where that kind of reaction to a stranger would be unthinkable.

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To be honest I dont think that a Canon 40D is a big camera, I have a 50D and dont find it heavy or bulky although it is bigger than an M8. If your gear weighs 5 Kilos then you must be carrying some larger telephotos, something you wont be doing with an M8 so it is not a good comparison.

 

A Canon 40D with an 17-55 f2.8 zoom covers much of a what you can do with an M8 and several lenses and weighs less than 1.4Kg.

 

Having said that you may still enjoy photography more with a Leica.

 

Jeff

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Thanks in advance for any guidance you may provide ;)

 

Do you use your Canon 40D on full manual? (I'm assuming you don't. Just an assumption--could be wrong. No offense meant if you do.)

 

If you haven't shot exclusively on manual--as a way of working, not just to "try it out"--I'm recommending you do the following before you commit to the M8:

 

(1) Go manual. NO auto allowed. :) Aperture, speed, and focus set by you at all times, not the camera. (No cheating!)

(2) ISO 800 maximum.

(3) Metering matrix (assuming you have this) set to meter from the center only. Note that you can (and should) use the in-camera meter when shooting, but you have to dial in the speed/aperture manually. :)

(4) Use one focal length. Set your zoom to 21mm or 35mm or 50mm (figuring your crop factor) and imagine it's "stuck" on that focal length. Use foot-zoom.

 

If after 1,000 photos you like the challenge of all manual and what it does for your photography, feel pretty good about taking the plunge.

 

Consider the experience a "downpayment" on some of the learning the M8 will demand from you once you have it. ;)

 

Cheers!

Will

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In the US, no one knows what it is. In Israel, it stands out like a beacon. You'ld be less noticed if you had two heads.

 

I've only shot with the M8 in Israel on one trip and no one paid any attention to the camera but perhaps it would be different if I lived there? Here in the U.S my D2 gets more attention than my M8 and when I shoot with my DSLR that for sure draws more attention than the M8, and D2. The M8 draws the least amount of attention.

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Yes, I think most looks are out of curiosity because most people think it's a quaint old camera but I find that if shooting my M8 or even a Contax G1 or G2. Most are amazed when they notice what seems to be an LCD screen on the back of that quaint old camera with that funny ancient folding silver lens on the front. :D

 

As regards all the publicity with the M9 launch, yes camera/photography buffs like ourselves will have heard about it or know about it but it would have passed most people by I'm sure.

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You are quite right - today a patient walked in, noticed the Digilux3 I have lying around (mostly hidden behind its ringflash) said: Hey! I did not know Leica made digital cameras! And this guy trained as a professional photographer.

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I never ever had any problem with my M8 attracting attention - she travelled the whole World with me : Portugal, Spain, France, Austria, Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Morroco, Belgium, UK, Scotland, Wales, Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand, Brazil ....

 

Never ever I got any other comments rather than :

 

"wow that is old, is it digital ? "

" film camera ?"

 

or :

 

"Leica ? are they still in business ? "

 

every other time, I got a photographer that recognized that is was a M8 and was surprised to see one. Let me see that all these countries, if it was 6 or 7 photographers in TOTAL , its already a big number.

 

Now, how do I travel ? With two lenses.

 

One in the camera, another in the pocket or in the wife's purse. Ditto for SD cards.

 

No I do not carry a Billigham bag ( although I have one ) nor a DOMKE or Lowerpro backpack ( although I also have them.... ) that screams "HEY IM A TOURIST AND PLEASE COME AND MUG ME".

 

Blending in is the key and never ever had a problem. Leica M let me blend in with no problem, and let me tell you that I usually use a Leica Noctilux as my main lens... when I used my M7 + 35mm F2 ASPH, I could see thieves frowning at it... or almost.

 

I did what you are saynig few years ago - went up in the dSLR world, going from a D100 up to a D2x then jumping ship to Canon for a 1Ds but for me the M8 is better than all of them... simply because I take it out and take pictures, it goes with me all the time rather than staying home like my 1Ds did or my D2x, because its heavy, its bulky, requires a photo bag and couple of lens.

 

Someone said a 40D + good zoom lens is 1.4 or 1.5kgs... thats not exactly heavyweight ( a 1Ds weights that sans lens ) but after a good day walking around, the neck feels that 1.4kgs...

 

A M8 with 50mm F2 summicron weights half of that......

 

I find the M8 a perfect camera : sure, it has lots and lots of drawbacks, can't do teles, noise is sub par by AVERAGE standards but....

 

Its light, compact, gives me beautifull files and I've learned ( think this is a very important part ) to tackle its flaws : no camera is perfect and you have to learn what it can and what it CAN'T do and minimize it.

 

As someone said, the X1 is brand new and the M8 is a mature product. They are very different and only you can see whats best for you - for me a M8 + CV lens is a better option, but your millage may vary.

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Is the M8 a good tool to help teach a beginner?

 

In short - yes!

 

An M8 used in manual mode and a fixed focal length lens will let you explore digital photography through a far more traditional pathway. Instead of using a zoom simply to crop from a fixed viewpoint, you will have to adjust your position relative to each subject and learn to see the perspective of each image too. Manual exposure control will make you think far more carefully about the effect of both aperture and shutter speed as well as seeing how the histogram shifts with varying lighting. I watch many people use dSLRs with their slow aperture bundled lenses and it seems to me that the apparent ease of use and ability to produce quick, automated results, actually make learning how to control a camera more difficult. If you do buy one you should really enjoy it and learning about it as a tool which you have to master.

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Wow thankyou so much for all the wonderful thought out replies!

 

My 5kg bag was a lowepro backpack, with camera body, 50mm 1.8, 10-22mm, 17-40L etc its heavy. But to be 100% honest.. the lens that stays on the camera most of the time is the 50mm. I love how sharp it is and the compact nature of the lens.

 

Even with the 50mm mounted, I still can't be bothered carrying it around. It also occurred to me with one of the responses above that all the settings the 40D has puts me off. I'm always forgetting to check settings, the camera makes me lazy!

 

I'm pretty close to knowing what to do I think. Pick up a used M8!

 

Thanks so much everyone... I'll go away and process further (thoughts that is).

 

amanda

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