Guest Ron (Netherlands) Posted May 15, 2010 Share #41 Posted May 15, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks again Luigi. Indeed at this angle, the photos show much more comparison. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 Hi Guest Ron (Netherlands), Take a look here Summicron 35mm first type: any info. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Kherberos Posted May 30, 2011 Share #42 Posted May 30, 2011 Hello Ron, My lens, M chrome w/ goggles #199**** Wetzlar bought new not that far from the factory, marked .7/28 but focuses a touch closer than .65/26. Sorry to intrude this thread with a question, but I am trying to understand how close the late sixties v1 35 f/2 summicron are able to focus. I am about to purchase a mint 1969 goggled 35mm summicron (serial no 2 31X XXX…), and the distance scale shows 0,70 as closest focus indication, which is different from older lenses for the M3, that showed 0,65m. Could you confirm that your lens is a) a goggled one and 2) it does focus from 0,65 although showing 0,70 on its distance scale? Thank You for any information you may provide on this! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted May 30, 2011 Share #43 Posted May 30, 2011 Could you confirm that your lens is a) a goggled one and 2) it does focus from 0,65 although showing 0,70 on its distance scale? Thank You for any information you may provide on this! Late versions of the goggled 35mm Summicron showed 0,7 on the distance scale, but focus to 0,65, just as the older versions that showed 0,65 on the distance scale. I guess Leitz at some point used the same distance scale rings for both the goggled and non-goggled versions of that lens to save some money. Cheers, Andy 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kherberos Posted May 30, 2011 Share #44 Posted May 30, 2011 Thank You Wizard So, this settle things for me: I will be the happy owner of mint sample shortly. Can't wait to use this lens at close range. I hope the performances are as nice as they are at 1m with my M39 mount sample! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 30, 2011 Share #45 Posted May 30, 2011 Thank You Wizard So, this settle things for me: I will be the happy owner of mint sample shortly. Can't wait to use this lens at close range. I hope the performances are as nice as they are at 1m with my M39 mount sample! Uhm... I see that the goggled lens you have bought is a 2.31x.xxx : can you post some detailed pictures of it when have in your hands ? It could even result that it can be one of the few Summicrons 2nd design made with goggles for M3... a very interesting item, in case (officially, the goggled Summicrons 35 were all of the 1st - 8 elements design, the 2nd is a different 6 elements design). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted May 30, 2011 Share #46 Posted May 30, 2011 Apart the 3.5, most of my 35mm, plain or googled, are with the little screw. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted May 30, 2011 Share #47 Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Kherberos, Welcome to the Forum, There is a degree of variation in engraving thu time w/ various configurations of 35mm Summicrons as there is w/ 50 mm Summicrons & a number of other Leitz lenses. This has been common practice by manufacturers in many fields in the past and still is today. First to answer your original questions: a) yes, 2) yes. The wiki @ the top of this page shows in 1969 there were 4400 35mm Summicrons made all 6 element. #2312751 thru #2314750 were 2,000 shown as chrome mounts. #2316001 thru #2318400 were 2,400 in black mounts. None are shown goggled. It is possible Leitz made some M3 goggled versions from lenses within these #'s because of continued demand during the then current production runs. Chrome goggled 35mm Summicrons which looked like the First Goggled Version were offered in their catalogs @ least into 1973. Leitz sold them for a significant premium over the un-goggled variety @ that time. Best Regards, Michael Edited May 30, 2011 by Michael Geschlecht 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kherberos Posted May 31, 2011 Share #48 Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) I see that the goggled lens you have bought is a 2.31x.xxx : can you post some detailed pictures of it when have in your hands ? It could even result that it can be one of the few Summicrons 2nd design made with goggles for M3... a very interesting item, in case (officially, the goggled Summicrons 35 were all of the 1st - 8 elements design, the 2nd is a different 6 elements design). Luigi, I will post pictures as soon as I get the lens. But I can already say that except for the goggles, it is exactly the same lens in design that my old M39 Summicron 35 f/2. It is really the same look etc. I am not sure of anything, but I would find rather weird (but people are weird, so…) if Leitz put optics of the v2 into the body of a v1. And the seller just confirmed me that the throw of the focus was going below the 0,70 inscription on the scale, which would confirm that the lens focus down to the 0,65m. Edited May 31, 2011 by Kherberos Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kherberos Posted May 31, 2011 Share #49 Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) Thank You Michael, I checked again the lens serial nr, and I confirm what I said earlier. 2 313 922 I hope I am not getting a disguised v2 summicron in v1 shape! I hope it's just before the "shift" the wiki datas are pointing to… But considering: a) the aesthetics is the same that a v1 (I can compare with my screw mount summicron 35 f/2), except for the goggles, of course, and the distance scale. the lens does focus till 0,65m, although showing 0,70 on its scale I was thinking this would be a 1969 v1 goggled lens… Anyway, it is offered with full warranty, so I can have my money back If I found it is not what it is supposed to be. I will ask further infos to the seller. Here are 2 picts of the lens, I got from the seller (hope I am not infringing anything…). Cheers, Laurent Edited May 31, 2011 by Kherberos fixing typo + new image Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 31, 2011 Share #50 Posted May 31, 2011 Thanks for posting: it surely looks to be a 1st design - 8 elements : to arrange the V2 6 elements cell into the previous mount I think should have been absurd... so, at this point, I am no more so sure that goggled V2 do exist... I seem that this has been said here by some expert... but don't remember to have ever seen a picture... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kherberos Posted May 31, 2011 Share #51 Posted May 31, 2011 I will get the lens, and will let you know how it turns out. About its M39 version, I "discovered" something really nice: On a Leica IIIg, you can actually use the built in finder to aim. The outskirt of the finder covers with a good realibility the field of the lens! It's been 4 to 5 rolls now that I am shooting this way, with good results, both short or long distances subjects. This is nice, as I do not like to reduce de compacity (enhance their height) of my Leica IIIs with external finders. Would it be possible that, actually, the v1 35 f/2 is rather a 38mm to 40mm lens than a real 35mm? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted May 31, 2011 Share #52 Posted May 31, 2011 I was thinking this would be a 1969 v1 goggled lens… On this pict the little screw to held the Mmount and goggle is visible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kherberos Posted May 31, 2011 Share #53 Posted May 31, 2011 jc_braconi, Do you talk about the little screw at 11 o'clock (on the picture), just after "MADE IN GERMANY? If this is the case, on my m39 summicron, there are also 3 little screws looking like the one visible on this picture. And there is not "MADE IN GERMANY" engraved, but just "Germany". So are they really related to the M mount? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted May 31, 2011 Share #54 Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) Are these three screws under the lens if yes they are holding in place a brass piece that limit the course of the focusing ramp. about the minimum focusing distance have a look here : Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited May 31, 2011 by jc_braconi Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/114295-summicron-35mm-first-type-any-info/?do=findComment&comment=1688091'>More sharing options...
Kherberos Posted May 31, 2011 Share #55 Posted May 31, 2011 Yes they are under the lens. Doest it mean that with some fiddling a M39 summicron 35 could be reset as a standard 0,70m focussing M mount? Mine, of course, is set for 1m. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted May 31, 2011 Share #56 Posted May 31, 2011 Yes they are under the lens. Doest it mean that with some fiddling a M39 summicron 35 could be reset as a standard 0,70m focussing M mount? Mine, of course, is set for 1m. It is for sure that the pieces used for the ranging course are a little different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted June 1, 2011 Share #57 Posted June 1, 2011 Thanks for posting: it surely looks to be a 1st design - 8 elements : to arrange the V2 6 elements cell into the previous mount I think should have been absurd... so, at this point, I am no more so sure that goggled V2 do exist... I seem that this has been said here by some expert... but don't remember to have ever seen a picture... Luigi – on page 110 of their Leica Taschenbuch (7. Auflage) Puts and Laney repeat the official truth that only the v.1 (8 elements) was made with goggles. But on that very page they run a picture of a black goggled Summicron which is patently a v.2.1, complete with the telltale aperture ring tab! They also duly note that while the regular v.1 was discontinued in 1969, goggled lenses were made as late as 1974. I started my working life as a picture editor. One of the first things I learned was that you have to look real hard at the pictures you intend to use. Not doing this is one of the most common errors, and the results can be either disconcerting, or hilarious. Fortunately, the readers do not look very hard either. The old man with the magnifier 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 1, 2011 Share #58 Posted June 1, 2011 Luigi – on page 110 of their Leica Taschenbuch (7. Auflage) Puts and Laney repeat the official truth that only the v.1 (8 elements) was made with goggles. But on that very page they run a picture of a black goggled Summicron which is patently a v.2.1, complete with the telltale aperture ring tab! Thanks Lars !! I haven't that book (have another Laney's - no such a picture) : could you post a repro/scan of the picture you quote ? (in case you worry of copyright... send me a PM...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted June 1, 2011 Share #59 Posted June 1, 2011 Luigi, the reproduction is so-so and the picture is quite small, so that I doubt that it's worth the effort. But you can clearly see both the deeply sunk front element, and the characteristic aperture tab. And what must be the same original photo is also reproduced larger and better in Laney: Leica Collector's Guide, 2nd edition, p. 218, top of the page. Here, the picture is crystal clear: The aperture tab sticks out at appr. 9 o'clock, while the focusing tab stands at 8 o'clock. You can see both prongs of the finger tab. Unfortunately, only the last three digits of the number are identifiable! Semper Idem Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted June 1, 2011 Share #60 Posted June 1, 2011 ...I hope I am not getting a disguised v2 summicron in v1 shape! I hope it's just before the "shift" the wiki datas are pointing to… Laurent, don't you worry. My own sample of the goggled M3 Summicron 35mm lens bears an even later serial number, 2 314 226 to be exact, and it is still a first version. Enjoy your "new" lens! Andy 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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