Poor Man's M8

[Kirk]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

OK, the M8 is out of my league, so what about the Olympus E400... it looks like a good poor man's M8. Almost the same dimensions, similar Kodak sensor, and its four thirds standard will take future Leica lenses like Summilux 25mm f1.4 ASPH (50 mm).

 

And, no living on the bleeding-edge with the M8's technical problems. The other choice is the DigiLux3, but it is a lot larger.

 

M8:

10MP - Kodak sensor (27 x 18 mm)

5.5 x 3.2 x 1.5 in - 20.8 oz

$5000

 

E400:

10MP - Kodak sensor (18.00 x 13.50 mm)

5.1 x 3.6 x 2.1 in - 14.8 oz

$1500 with 2 lenses

 

Olympus E-400: Digital Photography Review

 

Link to a Kodak document on CCD sensors. Check out page 10: media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/11/115911/reports/iss1106.pdf

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[DTD]

I'm using an E400 at the moment. It's a nice small, light camera. It's no M8 though.

[booggerg]

Poor Man's M8 = RD1

 

This E400 is a DSLR..

[bill]

Kirk, this is my thinking too. I'd hardly call it a poor man's M8, but it is smaller and lighter than the L1/D3. I'm planning to get one to team it with the 25 1.4 when it comes out. The drawback, in the UK at the moment at least, is that the E-400 is not available body only, and I really don't want or need a twin-lens kit.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Kirk]

David, what do you like and dislike about the E400?

 

Hanz, I looked at the RD1, but that is getting really old for a digital cameras.

 

Bill, I agree. I would much prefer to buy the body only.

[Enrique Santa]

I bought E 400 twoo weeks ago. Its a nice cam and the lenses work very well.I´m saving for the 11-22.

For those who are thinking abour buy this cam, please read the review in cameralabs.com.

 

here is a link to some of my recent pics:

 

Flickr: Photos from montoablasa

[Kirk]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Enrique, thanks for the info!

 

How is it for evening and night time photography?

[Enrique Santa]

Kirk, at 800asa the results are great. at 1600 you can print without visible noise at small sizes. In the monitor you will see some noise, but with big detail, so depend of the pic I use, some noise reduction program, or not. You can configure noise ninja easily to get out the noise wihtout losing detail.

[nemeng]

FWIW I've been using the earlier model Olympus E-500 with Leica R & Nikon AI lenses for a few months now. Works fine and the quality is reasonably good. IMO a good way to dip your toes into using digital for capture without breaking the bank or grinding your teeth over the massive depreciation losses :?)

 

My "serious stuff" is still shot onto C41 film though (Leica M or Hasselblad), which is then scanned and "digital" from there on.

[sean_reid]

Hanz, I looked at the RD1, but that is getting really old for a digital cameras.

 

Kirk,

 

I don't quite explain what that phrase means. Do you mean that since the camera came out in 2004 it can't be very good now? The only poor man's M8 is indeed the R-D1. In fact, some (although not myself) prefer it to the M8 even without considering cost.

[Kirk]

Sean, what I mean is that technology changes rapidly with computers, and digital cameras, as you well know.

 

So, with the RD1 you have a 6MP camera that may have other limitations because of age. I am not familiar with the RD1 specs, but it could be limited by image quality or high ISO noise from using an old sensor, the buffer size might mean slow write times, or maybe it is not compatible with new memory cards.

 

We've all had previous digital cameras that seemed good at the time, but are long-in-the-tooth, now. And, I bet there are other design flaws just because it was a first generation camera, not made by a camera company. So, maybe that's the real reason I am not excited about the RD1.

 

The digital age is like dog years where 1 year equals 7.

[lct]

Difficult to advise buying the R-D1 due to its QC problems but for some of us it's indeed the poor man's digital M3 where the M8 is the rich man's red-eyed M7.

Reminds me a thread i can't seem to retrieve in which i said that a M8 pic i liked could have been shot with a R-D1. It was meant as a compliment but i realised that it could not sound like that at all and that some M8 users could well feel somewhat insulted by my trivial comparison. Proof that one can be an old grumpy like me and stay naive a lot haha!

[alexr]

I bought a E400 in view of using it as a companion to M8. Its small and i would use it to shoot long teles, and for fast zoom/autofocus needs on normal focal lenghts (ie take a quick shot with the e400 if i have the wrong lens on M8 and no time to change optics).

Having used it for a while, must say i am quite impressed. Zuiko colours are just wonderful. Not the same as Leica but definitely have a soul (lovely pastels for ex), a revelation for me.

I have now decided to wait on purchase of M8 as I am totally disappointed with IR filter 'fix'.

I would recomend the zuiko 50 macro, and the 50-200 zoom. Also plan to look into the 150mm f2 Zuiko (awsome apparently). These lenses are also fully weather sealed. With a good adaptor i can use all my other Nikon glass (manual focus, but auto meter and auto AE exposure available) . When the new E3 (ie new E1 Oly) comes out, it will help me get over the wait for the m9, or improved M8. I still cannot believe these guys are gonna keep with a design that forces users to put IR filters on every lens. I might be wrong but sooner or later either Leica or someone else will make a digital rf that take all m mounts and does not need bloody red filters.

 

PS: for the member who prefers his e400 body only: the price of the kit is almost the same as for the body only. Might as well get the 2 lenses and play with them, you might be pleasantly surprised even though the other (ED labelled) zoom are much better.

regards

alex

[Enrique Santa]

KIrk, very interesting your kodak link. After read it I am sure that kodak and other manufactures will develope even better sensors, and sure in a short time.

This is one of the reasons that I don´t want to spend much money in a digi-cam.

I think 4/3 is a good choice for an amateur...more if you think that in in a near future you will have a lot of incredible good lenses -Oly, Leica ,Sigma......

I´m sure that in few time we will see Leica and Panasonic with more 4/3 cams focused in the prosumer market -cheaper and lighter than the actual D3-.

This is a very good time for us to live and enjoy better and better cams everyday.

[Kirk]

LCT… After being questioned about my RD1 remarks, I went ahead and read Sean’s review for a little enlightenment. I must say that it sounds like a first-class camera!

 

Alex… It’s great to hear that you are enjoying your new E400. It will definitely help pass the time until Leica makes it right, which we all know will happen eventually. Hopefully sooner than later.

 

Enrique… Yes, it is a good time for photographers, and for me it is all about having fun and taking a few nice shots. Thanks!

[DTD]

David, what do you like and dislike about the E400?

 

Only just started using it. Usually use an E-1. Used OM1s since the early 1980s.

 

The E400 is very small and light, especially with the kit lens. It is easy to carry around and all the controls are nicely placed.

 

But it is essentially designed as a rival for the entry level dSLRs such as the Pentax K100 and Nikon D40 and Canon D400. So a lot of controls such as metering, ISO options etc. are accessed via menus.

 

On the E1 you can get straight to these kind of functions by a button. The E1 also has a front and a rear command dial, so you can for example have the front one controling aperture and the rear controling shutter speed in manual mode, or have the front controlling aperture and the rear controlling exposure compensation in aperture priority mode.

 

In my opinion the main thing about the M8 (and any M for that matter) is the WAY it works – analogue controls etc. – rather than any debate about the picture quality.

 

It's interesting how many people have got interested in the 4/3rds concept since Leica signed up. As an Olympus user (who also uses an M6) this is all good news as I think 4/3rds was in danger of becoming a technical footnote.

[sean_reid]

LCT… After being questioned about my RD1 remarks, I went ahead and read Sean’s review for a little enlightenment. I must say that it sounds like a first-class camera!

 

It's an excellent camera. The problems with it really have nothing to do with age or performance per se but that there can be quality control problems (primarily related to the rangefinder) in some samples and Epson support, out of warranty, does not look encouraging. It's not outdated because there's nothing like it out there except for the much more expensive M8.

 

But...the file quality is excellent and it performs well even at ISO 1600. I shot professionally with 2 R-D1 bodies for two years before starting with the M8.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[MarkM6]

Difficult to advise buying the R-D1 due to its QC problems but for some of us it's indeed the poor man's digital M3 where the M8 is the rich man's red-eyed M7.

Reminds me a thread i can't seem to retrieve in which i said that a M8 pic i liked could have been shot with a R-D1. It was meant as a compliment but i realised that it could not sound like that at all and that some M8 users could well feel somewhat insulted by my trivial comparison. Proof that one can be an old grumpy like me and stay naive a lot haha!

 

As far as I am concern, there really is only 2 groups on this forum; look at the Photo Forums and then this Digital Forum. Only a few post on both.

 

Some can't take photograph that is worth mentioning what camera they took it with.

 

"1 year equal 7"; just spent 20 hours of quality-time with Photoshop; learn it properly and you will gain 8 years back.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Kirk]

David... thanks for sharing your Olympus experience.

 

I'm looking for a small, light camera that takes good quality images. When I went to Thailand last year, I hated lugging my heavy camera gear all over the country. When I visit Italy next year, I will travel light.

[Kirk]

Some can't take photograph that is worth mentioning what camera they took it with.

 

Mark... I know what you mean. I play golf, but we don't sit around talking about what clubs we use. What matters is who gets it in the hole the quickest. Although, I admit to using the best equipment I can. Maybe if I spent less on golf, I could spend more on photography.