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There is a difference between a problem and the many problems of the M8

 

-missed IR issue

-Banding problem at high iso/bright light

-Shutter recocking problem

-SD card issues (dead interface and no SDHC at first)

-sealing problems, or better not even the least sealing

-Coffee ring

-very, very slow JPG handling

 

There is no other camera that I had 3 replacements for and had to miss 3-4 months in 2 years time because it was away for repairs

 

Its the M8 users that are the victems of Leica's learning curve

 

But they may have it right finally, I hope so for them

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... Leica has lost a great deal of its reputation with the M8. ...

You've invented a way to measure reputation? Please let us know what it is!

 

Pete.

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-missed IR issue - I guess they knew about it all along

-Banding problem at high iso/bright light - someone suggested they are working on a firmware fix

-Shutter recocking problem - about 10 users out of 10.000

-SD card issues (dead interface and no SDHC at first) - SDHC was hardly available when the M8 came out, and they did deliver

-sealing problems, or better not even the least sealing - non issue, M8 works fine in mist, rain, snow etc. the few problems actually reported are related to condensation

-Coffee ring - also about 10 out of 10.000

-very, very slow JPG handling - agree, so I switched it off, using DNG is preferably anyhow, I knew that before I bought it

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You've invented a way to measure reputation? Please let us know what it is!

 

Pete.

 

I have:

 

I can use my 1933 Summar on my newest Digital Camera.

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Not so long ago, when cameras were mechanically driven with gears and cogs, it either worked or didn't right off of the assembly line. Now with the proliferation of electronics in our cameras, who knows how many leave the factory, DOA. That's why manufacturers have refurbish programs where they quietly retrieve these items, fix, refurbish and resell them. Leica as we well know is not immune to this.

I purchased my lightly used M8 more than a year ago. After using it daily for a couple of months, I found the sensor to band and fluoresce pixels. I sent it back to Leica where they serviced it as well as did the upgrades. I've been using the camera since with (knock on wood) no further issues on an extended one year warranty. If you want to use your fine collection of Leica M lenses, there aren't many options. Unfortunately receiving a defective piece of electronic equipment is not uncommon whether it be a camera or a laptop computer.

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Here's how Nikon Defines Support.

 

Nikon Responds to Encryption Claims | PhotographyBLOG

 

You also got the value-added feature of encryption of data in your NEF files when you did a firmware update. I know I feel better having Nikon encrypt data in the Raw Files to prevent me from reading it without using Nikon software.

 

That will define Nikon's reputation for me for a long time. I use their film cameras, and the E3, D1, and D1x. Maybe when the Nikon reps beg for forgiveness and contemplate suicide for this horrible insult, I might get a D3 to replace the D1x's...

Edited by brianv

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Guest Chris M

Too all you Toyota Nayers, I'm the proud owner of a Brand spanking new 2010 Toyota Land Cruiser yippy

Plenty of room to haul all those (BAD M8's) to Jersey with. hee he hee:D

 

chris m.

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Too all you Toyota Nayers, I'm the proud owner of a Brand spanking new 2010 Toyota Land Cruiser yippy Plenty of room to haul all those (BAD M8's) to Jersey with. hee he hee:D

 

chris m.

 

Ah, please stop by on the way to NJ. I would like to hand my beloved M8 to you for shutter and sensor repair

 

I love my daily beater Toyota (actually it is Scion). Although it is already falling apart in three years and its dashboard has melted from the heat, it runs, turns and stops as I wish, and it gives me 40+ mpg! When I complained the local Toyota dealer about the dashboard melting, I was told by their service manager "what? It should not happen because it is a Toyota. YOU must be doing something to it". It is all my fault:(

 

peace

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that is 5 years ago

 

how is it now?

 

I posted the question on rangefinderforum in the "Evil DSLR" section, and got one reply. Basically, the person stated the white balance information was available in NEF format, but other information was not available to the user. "User" here is defined as the person using the camera to take their photographs. "We Encrypt the World's Greatest Pictures, Yours".

 

http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86040

 

I did not get a straight answer as to whether Nikon still encrypts the fields, just that Nikon software allows you to save it in TIFF format.

 

One thing is for sure: It is not an open standard, like DNG that Leica used.

 

Again- I bring this up in response the the post about the "Japanese Companies Committing Suicide" if they had issues like the M8. They did, just most of the people on this forum were not early adopters of Digital. Remember when the D2x was new and Nikon stated they were not working on a Full-Frame camera, DX was it? How about the Nikon E3 in 1998 followed by the D1 in 1999? Talk about a $7,000 camera becoming instantly obsolete and worthless. My E3 and D1 both still work, as do both D1x's. End of the Nikon Digital Line for me. I'd buy an SP-2005 at a good price.

 

And Canon? Still waiting for a Digital FD mount!

Edited by brianv

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Make that 1 year. Goes for cars, too. I stick to that rule for as long as I can think of, and I have avoided many unpleasant experineces this way.

 

Andy

 

One can be lucky to have consumer good so long in production. Even so they might look the same, interior can change and in case of a 2 year warranty you could be facing problems with repair.

 

Uwe

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M8, ISO 2500 shot, Canon 50/1.2, in camera JPEG, table candle for lighting. Focus is on the Dessert.

 

Does this photo show the banding problem?

 

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://ziforums.com/picture.php?albumid=209%26pictureid=2084&key=7491884583f836bfe6b76a313ec1de680d0ef51bdeea3890b5f12d18fc8ba2f4">

 

It's the only 2500 shot that I've tried. After reading about the banding issue at high ISO, I have not tried it much.

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M8, ISO 2500 shot, Canon 50/1.2, in camera JPEG, table candle for lighting. Focus is on the Dessert.

 

Does this photo show the banding problem?

 

It's the only 2500 shot that I've tried. After reading about the banding issue at high ISO, I have not tried it much.

 

Look at a 1250 ISO shot with vertical lines pb...

 

 

Crop

 

Cheers,

Gérald

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I'm guessing that is caused by one pixel in the effected column, basically drags the charge down of samples as they shift through it. So it is a CCD Sensor issue. At lower ISO, there is more charge so it does not get lost. My M8 does not have these artifacts in it at this point in time, it is from one of the later production runs.

 

Another lesson learned by us long-time Digital users: sensors can degrade and it's not as easy as just reloading with film. My 17 year old DCS200ir has picked up three bad pixels on its zero-defect 1.6MPixel array in the years that I've owned it. But at ISO 100, no banding.

 

Welcome to the Digital World everyone. It's problems are not limited to any one manufacturer.

 

Has anyone tried a non-uniformity correction for the banding? I'm guessing there is data present, it has just been dragged down. Does not look like it is completely "black". Has anyone written any custom code to look at it?

Edited by brianv

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Sold my M8 today

 

I'm so very dissapointed by Leica and the treatment of the M8 problems

 

I found out I simply didn't trust to take in not so good conditions, fearing it will be killed by condensation again. Then I also got a D700 which images in high iso blew away the M8 images, so the M8 was hardly used anymore.

 

It is a shame from the start, The IR issue was a joke eventhough solved with filters, then Leica decided we should pay for upgrades of things that should have been in there from the start. And then finally I also got the LCD-ring problem. All solved in the end but in the over 2 years I had it I had 3 M8 replacements and over 3 months missing the camera due to all the repairs...all that for an over 3500euro camera. Actually I should sue Leica for bringing on such a product and denying all the problems it had so I had to put in a lot of time in it I could have spend much better. Known construction problems, like the LCD dark ring, when you were outside waranty you could shake it and a expensive repair was required. I was furtunate that all happened during warany eventhough I had a big fight with Leica over the condensation issue resulting the insurance company having to pay for it.

 

In japan if something would happen like this, the management of the company would kill themselves out of shame.

 

I had M's for many, many years, but it ends now, it ends in disappointment

 

Now I'm looking for a nice compact camera...will I trust Leica again and buy an X1 eventhough the main specs are good...I'm not sure. It seems they made some stupid design mistakes again. What are these 3 holes on top of the camera doing, allowing water to come in maybe, to ruin the electronics? What is this stupid IS joke, a way to avoid having to pay for patents of others?

 

Hear, hear. Hope you fully disclosed to the buyer what lemon he/she just bought from you;), or else.......

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I'm guessing that is caused by one pixel in the effected column, basically drags the charge down of samples as they shift through it. So it is a CCD Sensor issue. At lower ISO, there is more charge so it does not get lost. My M8 does not have these artifacts in it at this point in time, it is from one of the later production runs.

 

Another lesson learned by us long-time Digital users: sensors can degrade and it's not as easy as just reloading with film. My 17 year old DCS200ir has picked up three bad pixels on its zero-defect 1.6MPixel array in the years that I've owned it. But at ISO 100, no banding.

 

Welcome to the Digital World everyone. It's problems are not limited to any one manufacturer.

 

Has anyone tried a non-uniformity correction for the banding? I'm guessing there is data present, it has just been dragged down. Does not look like it is completely "black". Has anyone written any custom code to look at it?

You're 100% right and the most likely cause is cosmic radiation. All sensors suffer from it, but they show up on the M8 (and presumably M9) more clearly because of the lack of an AA filter. The remedy is either mapping the pixel out in firmware or, in severe cases, replacing the sensor.

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this was mr. photowebb I guess:D

 

So we need to divide the no. of problem cameras by a suitable factor to take into account the camera's from hell that are in circulation among multiple unhappy users.

 

Where is my Baysian statistics primer this is getting very messy.

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Sold my M8 today. I'm so very dissapointed by Leica and the treatment of the M8 problems... blah blah blah...

 

I will truly miss your posts. It has been a real pleasure to read your posts about the problems you have had with your camera.

 

Good luck and Goodbye,

 

Rick.

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