Asher Kelman Posted December 12, 2006 Share #1 Posted December 12, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well I am surprised! I discovered moire when photographing on the road from my car! So now what's the cure? Asher The Open Photography Forums Initiative Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 12, 2006 Posted December 12, 2006 Hi Asher Kelman, Take a look here M8, 28mm f8 at 60mph on the freeway: Moire!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Mark Antony Posted December 12, 2006 Share #2 Posted December 12, 2006 Asher There is no actual 'cure' what you are seeing is the non existent AA filter, moiré is occurring at the point where the sensor 'runs out' of resolution so to speak. Some cameras have strong AA filters to lessen the effect, Leica chose not to have one at all! Your picture is unusual as the road surface appears to be a resolution test chart:D Those vertical lines disappearing into the distance are going to give moiré on any digicam without a fairly strong AA filter, I think a similar effect would occur with say a Canon 5D (which has a weak AA filter). This sort of thing doesn't happen in many photographic situations, sometimes distant buildings or types of cloth, not usually in nature. The joys of digital:) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asher Kelman Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share #3 Posted December 12, 2006 AsherThere is no actual 'cure' what you are seeing is the non existent AA filter, moiré is occurring at the point where the sensor 'runs out' of resolution so to speak. Some cameras have strong AA filters to lessen the effect, Leica chose not to have one at all! Your picture is unusual as the road surface appears to be a resolution test chart:D Those vertical lines disappearing into the distance are going to give moiré on any digicam without a fairly strong AA filter, I think a similar effect would occur with say a Canon 5D (which has a weak AA filter). This sort of thing doesn't happen in many photographic situations, sometimes distant buildings or types of cloth, not usually in nature. The joys of digital:) Thanks for the input, Mark! Actually, the sensor is no where near running out of resolution as it can distinguish futher detail in the concrete stripes themselves. Still, it's an interesting phenomenon. I'll try with the 5D as well! I'll have to look out for it with fabric. Asher The Open Photography Forums Initiative Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradreiman Posted December 12, 2006 Share #4 Posted December 12, 2006 you can give it to me that terrible little camera. really-you sound happy to have made moire. what up with that? is this worth printing or just another chance to badmouth the m8? there are softwares available to deal with moire. you can do it to the whole image like most cameras do "in camera" or you can deal with it on your own in numerous software aplications locally. this has been explained by leica in the m8 brochure long before the camera came out. or you can get another anti-aliased camera and get smeary files all day but your little highway lines won't show moire. is it the moire or the photograph thats copywritten? paranoid? sorry it's late here....b Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted December 12, 2006 Share #5 Posted December 12, 2006 I was being simplistic when I said it's running out of resolution, what is actually happening is that the sensor Nyquist frequency has been reached after that the information that is beyond that frequency is aliased to a lower frequency. Sometimes you can minimize the effect by shooting at apertures of F16-22 where the diffraction will limit the moiré by acting in a similar way to an AA filter. hope this helps Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinA Posted December 12, 2006 Share #6 Posted December 12, 2006 I'm not sure it is camera moire, you can get moire patterns with the naked eye, two mesh fences etc together. It looks like road texture reacting with itself. Kevin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 12, 2006 Share #7 Posted December 12, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Perhaps you should petition Arnold whatever-his-name-is to lay decent road surfaces in California so that the ruts on the road don't react with the pixel spacing in the sensor to cause Moire fringing and spoil your pictures and your day generally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lode Posted December 12, 2006 Share #8 Posted December 12, 2006 IMHO all Bayer CFA cameras are suscepttible to moire. The AA-filter is more or less a stopgap solution. I can understand that Leica have decided to omit the filter. Maybe a Foveon sensor (M9?) is a better solution. Foveon - Image Comparison Lode Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted December 12, 2006 Share #9 Posted December 12, 2006 Well I am surprised! I discovered moire when photographing on the road from my car! So now what's the cure? Asher The Open Photography Forums Initiative Hi Asher, Take a look at the second article in the M8 series again for a discussion of this and of one approach for correcting it. It's the price we pay for captures that aren't pre-blurred for us. Cheers, Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted December 12, 2006 Share #10 Posted December 12, 2006 Well I am surprised! I discovered moire when photographing on the road from my car! So now what's the cure? Asher The Open Photography Forums Initiative This not camera moiré. It disappears whenever the viewing size on the monitor is a full integer factor of 100%, like 50%, or 25%. It only appears at sizes like 66% or 33%. It's monitor moiré. There is your cure. Also, you were driving at 60 mph in that traffic? You'd better moderate, or pretty soon you'll have something worse than moiré to compain about Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted December 12, 2006 Share #11 Posted December 12, 2006 congratulations!!! you have won a Canon 5D for finding a default with your M8 to get your prize you must go on a bicycle for about 3 miles, clapping your hand and manual focusing your camera at the same time, if image is focussed and without moiré you also get a job at the nearest circus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcbig001 Posted December 12, 2006 Share #12 Posted December 12, 2006 ok, I think it is caused by the CRT , not the camera. How about those 4 dots on the upper left protion of the sky? I thought the M8 has ultrasonic shack to get the dust off on ccd? Tai Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 12, 2006 Share #13 Posted December 12, 2006 ok, I think it is caused by the CRT , not the camera. How about those 4 dots on the upper left protion of the sky? I thought the M8 has ultrasonic shack to get the dust off on ccd? Tai Oh yes, there's dust on the sensor. Where did you get the idea there's a dust-removal function from? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted December 12, 2006 Share #14 Posted December 12, 2006 Well I am surprised! I discovered moire when photographing on the road from my car! So now what's the cure? Asher The Open Photography Forums Initiative You can display it here just by using the little mountain icon and putting the URL in there. I don't think the stuff in the road is moire, just an artifact of resizing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted December 12, 2006 Share #15 Posted December 12, 2006 How about those 4 dots on the upper left protion of the sky? I thought the M8 has ultrasonic shack to get the dust off on ccd? Tai I believe you are confusing the M8 with the Digilux 3. I've never heard anything about that feature being on the M8. And, there are actually a lot more than 4 dots. There is a tremendous amount of crud on that sensor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted December 12, 2006 Share #16 Posted December 12, 2006 "This not camera moiré. It disappears whenever the viewing size on the monitor is a full integer factor of 100%, like 50%, or 25%. It only appears at sizes like 66% or 33%. It's monitor moiré. There is your cure". Interesting it seems to print! I don't know what the fuss is it's moiré it's a good thing:) means razor sharp images! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asher Kelman Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share #17 Posted December 12, 2006 you can give it to me that terrible little camera. really-you sound happy to have made moire. what up with that? is this worth printing or just another chance to badmouth the m8? there are softwares available to deal with moire. you can do it to the whole image like most cameras do "in camera" or you can deal with it on your own in numerous software aplications locally. this has been explained by leica in the m8 brochure long before the camera came out. or you can get another anti-aliased camera and get smeary files all day but your little highway lines won't show moire. is it the moire or the photograph thats copywritten? paranoid? sorry it's late here....b I love the camera! The report is to elicit cures! LOL I am a great advocate of the M8. I can use it where the 5D with lenses is more noticable. The bag with lenses weighs nothing and the files are wonderfully robust and the pictures great! However, the extent of the moire surprised me. I guess it shouldn't have! If you want the camera, buy one! I'm getting 3. BTW, it prints with moire at 300 dpi from a PSD file with no uprezzing of the file size! I'll send anyone the file for processing or curing to the extent possiblle! Cheers! Asher The Open Photography Forums Initiative Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemeng Posted December 12, 2006 Share #18 Posted December 12, 2006 (1) For RAW images, I believe C1 has a moire-reduction option (2) Use a photoshop plug-in such as: S2 Pro Moire Reducer (3) The way I do it: in photoshop select the affected area and de-saturate it (ie. remove the colour). Now use the colourise option to add colour back to make your selected area match its surroundings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Campbell Posted December 12, 2006 Share #19 Posted December 12, 2006 The pro version of C1 has a PS anti-moire tool (this is because the Phase One backs don't have AA filters). It is said to work well, but I haven't tried it - because I'm a Canon shooter I spend my life fighting the AA filter, not moire. If my M8 ever arrives . . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 12, 2006 Share #20 Posted December 12, 2006 Now this is Moire'. Ist time i hit on the M8 out of at least a thouand shots , it can happen but it is also a easy fix. C1 Pro gives you a PS plugin called i am spelling this wrong De Morlize Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/11196-m8-28mm-f8-at-60mph-on-the-freeway-moire/?do=findComment&comment=116812'>More sharing options...
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