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M8 Thumbwheel Problems


thcrozier

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I've had my M8 for about 2 years. Last week the operation of the thumbwheel became intermittant. Sometimes I turn it and nothing happens, and other times I turn it and it will cause a jump through 4 or 5 menu items. It is essentially useless.

 

Anyone have any suggestions? If there is a simple fix or a way to remove it and clean whatever mechanism is underneath it, I would much rather do that than send it in for repair.

 

Tom in California

Edited by thcrozier
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Hi Tom

In the beginning of the M8 story the "jumping through menue" was a serious issue caused by the wheel on a lot of cameras. It was discussed here as well. Leica did some changement in the firmware at that time and the problem went away (I didn't notice any complain on this issue further on). And also on my M8 it covers the problem up to now perfectly.

It was - for my understanding - not clear if it was the switch mechanically or a malfunction of the software in interpreting the signals coming from switch ... or both ... or what ever else was causing the problem ...

I assume you're using latest firmware. May be an older theory comes up now, telling that it's the mechanics of the switch in the wheel who getting worser at time and the compensation of that former software patch is now not anymore able to cover the problem in your specific camera.

Sorry looks like CS for me ...

 

Michael

Edited by Michael M.
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Thanks Michael:

 

Yes, I do have the latest firmware loaded, in fact that was the first thing I checked. The problem started last week during a trip to Nicaragua, where it is hot, humid and dusty. I was thinking maybe some dust got under there but the camera is clean. This is the first problem I have experienced with it. I hate the thought of CS just because of the time involved.

 

This does bring up another question, how much of a harsh environment can you expect an M8 to take? I use my cameras pretty hard, expecting them to hold up to most bumps, splashes, and other "abuse". I've never had any problems with my M3 or with my M6, and frankly have treated them pretty harshly over the years. They are definitely not in "mint condition" but function perfectly. With the M8 I have always been much more careful, under the assumption that all of the electronics are going to be more vulnerable to dust and moisture than its mechanical predecessors.

 

Thanks again for your comment.

 

Tom

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Photoweb:

 

I was planning on ordering an M9 pretty soon, but after this thumbwheel problem and now reading your posts about shutter problems as well, I think I'll hold fire until I'm sure L is producing a reliable product. I have never minded paying a lot of money for quality; but paying a lot of money and encountering defects, as we yanks say, "chaps my butt".

 

Tom :confused:

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Tom, reading that you where at Nicaragua gives me the idea that high humidity causes some oxide to the contacts of the wheel-switch. Switch camera off and turn wheel for some "heavy rounds". May be this cleans up the contacts internally again ...

BTW my M8 as well as the new M9 in my hands never showed up the problem again (but they are working in quite dry conditiones here in good old Germany ...

 

Michael

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Didn't work. Another characteristic of this problem is that sometimes the menu actually moves in the opposite direction from the direction I move the wheel.

 

I imagine you are right, it's going to be CS.

 

But thank you very much for the suggestion!

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Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk
The thumbwheel on my M8 did the same. Jumped in opposite directions and

eventually stopped working at all. I first suspected oxide and now the camera

is on a trip to Solms.

 

Is this another bug with the M8? Seems a few of us already have had this problem either now or in the past - or perhaps I just got a Friday afternoon job?....

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Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk
Before tackling CS I strongly suggest that you reload the latest firmware as this has reportedly remedied other problems.

 

Pete.

 

I've done this several times with mine to fix this problem and the others I am experiencing. My M8 has been a paperweight for the last 2 months.

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I've reloaded the latest frimware 3 times now. It hasn't fixed the problem. My intuition says the problem is mechanical, especially since certain rotational positions of the thumbwheel seem to produce more problems than others.

 

Tom

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I guess this is why we pay the big bucks for the highest quality equipment in the world:

 

From: "Murray, Colleen" <colleen.murray@leicacameraus... [Add to Address Book]

To: Tom Crozier <thcrozier@earthlink.net>

Subject: RE: M8 Thumbwheel Problem

Date: Feb 9, 2010 6:07 AM

Please send your equipment to: Leica Camera, Inc., 1 Pearl Court, Unit A, Allendale, NJ 07401

 

We recommend that you ship via UPS or Federal Express, but feel free to ship however it is most convenient for you. Include a note with your name, address and daytime phone number and a brief description of what you would like to have repaired. If it is a recently purchased item, please include a copy of your sales receipt.

 

An estimate or a warranty repair notice will be mailed to you in approximately 2 to 3 days after we receive your equipment. Please allow a few more days for the mail to reach you. Make a note of the serial number for your records. If you need to call us regarding this repair, the serial number is what we would need to find the repair until a repair order number is assigned to it.

 

Unfortunately, the turn around time on the M8 is running 12 weeks.

Leica Camera Inc. / Customer Service

1 Pearl Court, Unit A / Allendale, NJ 07401 / USA

www.leicacamerausa.com / E-mail Colleen.Murray@LeicaCameraUSA.com

Telephone: (+1) 800-222-0118 x 216 / (+1) 201-995-1684

 

From: Tom Crozier [mailto:thcrozier@earthlink.net]

Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:25 PM

To: Repair

Subject: M8 Thumbwheel Problem

 

 

 

I've had my M8 for about 3 years. Last week the operation of the thumbwheel became intermittent. Sometimes I turn it and nothing happens, and other times I turn it and it will cause a jump through 4 or 5 menu items. It is essentially useless.

 

Do you have any suggestions? If there is a simple fix or a way to remove it and clean whatever mechanism is underneath it, I would much rather do that than send it in for repair. I would hate to be without the camera for any extended period of time.

 

Tom Crozier

8072 Stone Place

Ventura, CA, 93004

Home 805-659-3701

Cell 805-660-6913

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I've had this problem on my M8 for a long time, it's persisted despite the camera being serviced by Leica. In my case the usual problem is random behavior while zooming a preview image.

 

I find that I can 'fix' it by opening up a preview image, then spinning the wheel quite vigorously in the 'zoom in' direction until the image remains zoomed (usually it pops in and out a few times).

 

After I've done that, the wheel will operate just fine for a while.

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Thanks David:

 

Yes, I've found that spinning it enough will allow me to eventually get the zoom results I need, and that for menu purposes you can always use the 4 buttons around the wheel. So I won't be sending it in unless it develops bigger problems.

 

But the fact that it isn't reliable is disappointing. I missed quite a few shots when the problem first surfaced. My M3, which I bought used in 1973 (I was 15 years old) after working an entire summer to save up for it, has worked flawlessly in environments as diverse as villages in the Amazon jungle to some of the highest peaks in the Andes. It's 45+ years old and at times I have treated it - let's say - harshly.

 

I never expected the M8 to be as rugged as the M3, and have always been much more careful with it. My M3 is not pretty to look at, but the pictures it takes sure are.

 

I have been considering an M9, but this problem, and the rather cavalier reply from CS, have me wondering whether Leica is what it used to be.

 

Tom

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Thanks David:

 

Yes, I've found that spinning it enough will allow me to eventually get the zoom results I need, and that for menu purposes you can always use the 4 buttons around the wheel. So I won't be sending it in unless it develops bigger problems.

 

But the fact that it isn't reliable is disappointing. I missed quite a few shots when the problem first surfaced. My M3, which I bought used in 1973 (I was 15 years old) after working an entire summer to save up for it, has worked flawlessly in environments as diverse as villages in the Amazon jungle to some of the highest peaks in the Andes. It's 45+ years old and at times I have treated it - let's say - harshly.

 

I never expected the M8 to be as rugged as the M3, and have always been much more careful with it. My M3 is not pretty to look at, but the pictures it takes sure are.

 

I have been considering an M9, but this problem, and the rather cavalier reply from CS, have me wondering whether Leica is what it used to be.

 

Tom

 

I think the problem is that the software that interprets the direction of spin gets confused. Mine was wacky from very early on, so I don't think it's got anything to do with physical damage.

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The thumbwheel works by generating two digital signals (on/off, high/low) which are read by the control processor; when it sees a change in either, it can tell, based on the last value read, that the wheel has been turned and in which direction. The signals follow this pattern in sequence as the dial is turned:

 

00

01

11

10

00

 

and so on... Notice that only ever 1 bit changes for each transition - if the last reading was 10, a transition to 00 means a movement in one direction, to 11 a movement in the other. To prevent "bounce" the software will read multiple times and if the gold plated contact strips and finger become dirty, the control signals may themselves be noisy. It's up to the processor to filter out these erroneous readings.

 

The firmware changes were probably to change the filtering characteristics to make the thing more resistant to noise while making it responsive enough. Turning the dial slowly is more likely to help than turning it quickly.

 

It's likely the thing need to be replaced or at least cleaned; not the biggest job, about 23 screws and a replacement cover but not recommended if you do not have the right tools.

 

12 weeks seems an awfully long time to wait. By the way, do the arrow buttons work?

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The firmware changes were probably to change the filtering characteristics to make the thing more resistant to noise while making it responsive enough. Turning the dial slowly is more likely to help than turning it quickly.

 

Once mine has started misbehaving, it makes no difference how fast i turn it - i basically get random zoom-in/out/nothing per click. Doing the 'big spin' in a consistent direction seems to reset it (or maybe just clears off whatever gunk is in there). Once it's good again, I can use the wheel as normal for quite a while before it goes wonky again.

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