M9 & Possible Serious Shutter Problem?

[D&A]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi All,

 

I spend the better part of a few days helping a aquantence set up his M9 which he initially received last November. Although somewhat cold outside (approx 28 degress)..the camera was in this temp for only about 10 minutes each time (on different days) that the possible shuuter issue materialized.

 

The camera was always set to single shot in apature priority and shutter speeds were between 1/250 to 1/1000 depending on the changing light. The shutter was pressed fairly slowly each time but the shutter was fired continuously, one shot after another, sometimes for a series of 20 or more shots. Never did we have to wait for the buffer to clear or to fire the shutter. What would happen, somewheres in the sequence of 15-25 consecutive shots, as the shutter button was pressed quite slowly, often reframing slightly between each shot, I'd head a hesitation (almost a delay) in the shutter firing. This hesitation came with an almost very soft imperceptable click...and then the shutter would fire, aparently normally. It would happen maybe only one in a sequence of 20 shots...sometimes not...and once or twice, two times in a squence of 20 or more consecutive shots. When the shutter did fire right after a "hesitiaion and possible soft click"...the exposure and frame was fine, except fro the very last time it happened and a black (clank) frame occured.

 

Don't know if this is what some experienced with theri M8 (or even if someone had experienced with their M9). So far is shooting at a slower deliberate pace, nothing untold appears. Haven't yet tried shooting 20-30 consecutive shots in warmer temps either. Its as though the shutter mechanism starts to move..and then hesitates and stops for a split second and then fires normally..the very few times its happend so far...as though maybe the cold temps and lack of greese is causing friction in some movebale part and then quickly it continues on its journey to "fire". Any thoughts? I haven't experiecned this with the other M9 I have had a chance to shoot with. Thanks!

 

Dave (D&A)

[FredSF]

For cold weather, just like film Ms, you should try to minimize your camera exposure (here,only related to temperature) to the 'outside' world to a minimimum. Keep it close to your body inside your jacket.

 

I'm not sure if this will solve your shutter issues, but you definitely should keep that in mind.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[D&A]

Hi Fred,

 

I appreciate your response and generally in cold weather thats exactly what I do. I don't think that (the cold) was at all a factor in the shuttter issue I decribed above. The camera each time was completely at room (normal) temperature and only used outside for maybe 5-10 mintes in moderate to cold temp...nothing extreme. If fact on one occasion, the shutter "hicup" happened within 60 seconds of being outside in conditions described above. SO I believe something else is going on, and wanted to hear if others have experienced anything like what I described. Thanks once again.

 

Dave (D&A)

[delander †]

I'd never know if my M9s behaved like this because I never use them as you have described. What are you trying to photograph?

 

Jeff

[thrice]

Oh wow that's scary misinformation.

 

For cold environments you should keep the BATTERY close to your body and insert it for shooting, the camera should be allowed to acclimatise to the outside temperature before turning it on. If you're shooting below 0 obviously you're below the official rating for the camera but I see no reason for it to have issues until the lubricants reach the temperatures at which they harden.

 

If you keep the camera warm then expose it to the cold environment, what do you think happens inside the camera?

 

For what it's worth I haven't had this problem but where I live it's usually around 30C. I'll be taking it to New Zealand in October and will probably be able to report with more authority then.

Edited February 4, 2010 by thrice

[D&A]

Hi All,

 

Again I truly appreciate all the responses, BUT please let me emphasize something. The camera was in a 1/2 case and not removed from it while shooting. IN 60 seconds or less of time going from a moderate temp to a moderate cold one, but nothing thats extreme and barely below 32 degrees, I truly doubt in the situation I described that cold temperatures had anything to do with it...nor the brief 60 seconds change in temperature.

 

For the moment, take the difference in temp out of the equation and I suspect what I described would have occured regardless. In fact when I asked my aquantence a few minutes ago if he can recall taking a series shots and ever experiencing the shutter delay when shooting a series of 15-20 consecutive shots in a row..in a moderately slow methodical way (not frantically pressing the shuuter button again and again with no pause), he has..and it was indoors at normal room temperature. So what was experieced on his camera happens regardless of temperature as I now find out.

 

If singe shots are leasurely taken, one here, then one there, then so far this anomoly as described, hasn't happened yet. I should also mention it has also occured with two different fully changed Leica batteries, so that can also be taken out of the equation. Again just trying to determine whether under any conditions, similar obserbervations of consecutive firing of the shutter (20+ shots) in single shot mode (and I suspect it would have happend likewise in continuous mode)...has been observed or occured in other M9's. If not (and hopefully not)..then this is simply his camera and a close watch of its shutter will be required. Thanks!

 

Dave (D&A)

Edited February 4, 2010 by D&A

[tdtaylor]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

For cold weather, just like film Ms, you should try to minimize your camera exposure (here,only related to temperature) to the 'outside' world to a minimimum. Keep it close to your body inside your jacket.

 

I'm not sure if this will solve your shutter issues, but you definitely should keep that in mind.

 

I find this surprising. I have my Nikons outside for extended periods (6-8 hours) in 10-25 degree weather, and know many others that use their cameras in far colder situations. Of course you have to be careful bringing them back in, to avoid condensation problems, and you do have to take care of your batteries, but I have never had a mis-functioning camera because of temps. If I understand correctly, M's have fewer mechanical parts than the Nikon and Canon SLRs, so why would the cold be a major issue. Bad weather, since they don't have weather-sealing, yes, but just cold? And of course, one shouldn't expose it to severe conditions if you don't need to but often one does.

[D&A]

Terry, read my "new" post directly above yours...I've taken temperature out of the equation since focus is on the temperature... rather than the complete explanation of the temperature situation the camera was used in (60 seconds in a case in not very cold temp with fully chaged warm batteries) and change from one temp to another was almost as brief (50 seconds). Now I find out that these shuttersymptoms have even occured indoors....so the situation is based not on temp shot at, but simply what hs been observed. Certainly no alarm is being raised, as it may be simply a one-off situation with his camera...no different than the occasional glitch on any aprticular sample. The one I am using has never shown this issue and has been ideal. Obviously he is worried and before the expense of sending it in...he just wants to make sure no one else has experienced this in their M9's. It never hurts to ask. Thanks!

 

Dave

[delander †]

How long does the camera take to completely write a single shot (DNG, jpg or both together) to the card that he is using?

 

Jeff

[vanhulsenbeek]

 

Don't know if this is what some experienced with theri M8 (or even if someone had experienced with their M9). So far is shooting at a slower deliberate pace, nothing untold appears. Haven't yet tried shooting 20-30 consecutive shots in warmer temps either. Its as though the shutter mechanism starts to move..and then hesitates and stops for a split second and then fires normally..the very few times its happend so far...as though maybe the cold temps and lack of greese is causing friction in some movebale part and then quickly it continues on its journey to "fire". Any thoughts? I haven't experiecned this with the other M9 I have had a chance to shoot with. Thanks!

 

 

Have had some similar occurences when shooting (vertical) panoramas of approx 25 shots. A black frame only once. No problems when shooting at deliberate slow pace: probably I just went to fast and hit the buffer.

 

Frankly, this does not bother me a bit. I do not consider it as a problem (let alone serious) and certainly I am not sending the camera to Solms.

[chris_tribble]

Hi All,

I spend the better part of a few days helping a aquantence set up his M9 which he initially received last November. Although somewhat cold outside (approx 28 degress)..the camera was in this temp for only about 10 minutes each time (on different days) that the possible shuuter issue materialized.

 

Your friend has had an M9 since November and needed help from someone else to set it up? They've spent > $7000 on a camera and they don't know how to stick on a lens, shove in a charged battery and an SD card and then go take photos? What else is there to set up??

 

But hey - maybe I should be in panic. Can someone help? I've just realised that if I put an m9 in a microwave oven on full power with the shutter release stuck down with some chewing gum, the shutter might malfunction before the battery runs down. Should I send my camera to Solms?

 

 

... or should I get a life and start taking photos?

 

[250swb]

Perhaps the first thing to do Dave is get your friend to reset the camera back to factory defaults. The other thing to note is the position of the main switch, is it set to S, C, or in between when the fault occurs? It is easy to move this switch, especially if the temperature was very cold,.......and your friend was wearing gloves.

 

I just have this vague notion something like this could happen if the camera was set to Auto Bracket and the switch kept getting moved between C and S.

 

Steve

Edited February 4, 2010 by 250swb

[vanhulsenbeek]

 

... or should I get a life and start taking photos?

 

 

+ 1

[Shootist]

Oh wow that's scary misinformation.

 

If you keep the camera warm then expose it to the cold environment, what do you think happens inside the camera?

 

 

Nearly nothing. But it is the other way around. If the camera is cold and then you bring it into a warm moist environment it will then collect condensation.

 

As to the shutter problem I'd say it is the buffer getting full and the camera has to wait for it to clear for another image to be taken.

[Knorp]

Hi All,

 

Again I truly appreciate all the responses, BUT please let me emphasize something. The camera was in a 1/2 case and not removed from it while shooting. IN 60 seconds or less of time going from a moderate temp to a moderate cold one, but nothing thats extreme and barely below 32 degrees, I truly doubt in the situation I described that cold temperatures had anything to do with it...nor the brief 60 seconds change in temperature.

 

For the moment, take the difference in temp out of the equation and I suspect what I described would have occured regardless. In fact when I asked my aquantence a few minutes ago if he can recall taking a series shots and ever experiencing the shutter delay when shooting a series of 15-20 consecutive shots in a row..in a moderately slow methodical way (not frantically pressing the shuuter button again and again with no pause), he has..and it was indoors at normal room temperature. So what was experieced on his camera happens regardless of temperature as I now find out.

 

If singe shots are leasurely taken, one here, then one there, then so far this anomoly as described, hasn't happened yet. I should also mention it has also occured with two different fully changed Leica batteries, so that can also be taken out of the equation. Again just trying to determine whether under any conditions, similar obserbervations of consecutive firing of the shutter (20+ shots) in single shot mode (and I suspect it would have happend likewise in continuous mode)...has been observed or occured in other M9's. If not (and hopefully not)..then this is simply his camera and a close watch of its shutter will be required. Thanks!

 

Dave (D&A)

 

 

Hi there Dave,

 

this "black shot" happened to me as well a couple of times. I can hear it immediately if something is amiss. The shutter makes this strange buzzing noise, I'm sorry I can't describe it more accurate, but it is very very distinctive and indeed there is some delay after pressing the button. It's just so weird that at first I thought "hey, the camera doesn't fire". Last Sunday it happened 3 or 4 times out of a total of approx. 80 shots under rather cold but just not freezing conditions. The images have all the info, but are just black. From Saturday's shoot I kept 2 or 3 for 'future' reference.

 

Kind regards.

[vanhulsenbeek]

Hi there Dave,

 

this "black shot" happened to me as well a couple of times. I can hear it immediately if something is amiss. The shutter makes this strange buzzing noise, I'm sorry I can't describe it more accurate, but it is very very distinctive and indeed there is some delay after pressing the button. It's just so weird that at first I thought "hey, the camera doesn't fire". Last Sunday it happened 3 or 4 times out of a total of approx. 80 shots under rather cold but just not freezing conditions. The images have all the info, but are just black. From Saturday's shoot I kept 2 or 3 for 'future' reference.

 

Kind regards.

 

Hmm. I do not think temperature has much do do with this "anomaly".

Rather the fact that the camera may act strange when the buffer is reached and the shutter is activated nevertheless: something that should perhaps be treated in a future firmware release.

 

Maybe the test-photographers should have done more machine-gun practice 'HCB a la mitraillette' ? Mitraillette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edited February 4, 2010 by vanhulsenbeek

[Knorp]

Hmm. I do not think temperature has much do do with this "anomaly".

Rather the fact that the camera may act strange when the buffer is reached and the shutter is activated nevertheless: something that should perhaps be treated in a future firmware release.

 

Maybe the test-photographers should have done more machine-gun practice 'HCB a la mitraillette' ? Mitraillette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Hi there Sander,

 

not a fact in my case, I just made single shots in a very leisurely pace ! Certainly no full buffer issue here. I've just conducted some indoor tests and can easily shoot 40 or 50 consecutive frames without a single "black shot". It doesn't proof much perhaps, but still ...

 

Kind regards.

[vanhulsenbeek]

Hi there Sander,

 

not a fact in my case, I just made single shots in a very leisurely pace ! Certainly no full buffer issue here. I've just conducted some indoor tests and can easily shoot 40 or 50 consecutive frames without a single "black shot". It doesn't proof much perhaps, but still ...

 

Kind regards.

 

But - pray and with all due respect - why would anyone buy a Leica M9 Rangefinder to fire 40-50 consecutive shots? That's is what a Canikon Mk7DsXX is for

Horses for courses: let's stop testing and start taking pictures!

And BTW: I and still not convinced there is a ''serious issue'' with the shutter.

Edited February 4, 2010 by vanhulsenbeek

[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

I don't think the temperature has anything to do with this. Head over to the M8 forum to see that I am dealing with a dodgy shutter on my M8 at the moment. It seems to be a common issue which has unfortunately been continued into the M9......

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[250swb]

I don't think the temperature has anything to do with this. Head over to the M8 forum to see that I am dealing with a dodgy shutter on my M8 at the moment. It seems to be a common issue which has unfortunately been continued into the M9......

 

No sweeping statement there then, considering this seems to be the first post relating to any sort of problem that may seem circumstantially similar.

 

Steve