tri elmar informal testing

[ho_co]

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Thanks, Willem. I didn't expect the lens to pass information to the body via the bayonet flange. I suppose the lens will appear simply as Tri-Elmar 16/18/21 in the EXIF data, no matter what the focal length.

 

Was the camera set to recognize the zebra coding of the lens? That would help explain what looks to me like lesser vignetting of the Tri-Elmar.

 

Very good set of comparisons! The Heliar is no slouch, and the Tri-Elmar is no cheapie!

 

--HC

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[ho_co]

Neither the CV12, CV15 or CV25 are RF coupled.

Thanks, Sean, that's what I thought.

 

Considering that the WATE is three lenses in one;

that they are all three diaphragm-compensated (i.e. f/8 is f/8 with all focal lengths); and

that they are not only all rangefinder-coupled but also that focus doesn't shift with change of focal length;

 

I think it's reasonable that it might cost a bit more than the Cosina Voigtländers, even taken as a group.

 

--HC

[rvaubel]

oh ja, the purple coat is, of course, black nylon.

 

actually, i've seen a lot of t-shirts turn purple too. not only syntetic textiles do it...

 

if i have time this week i'll post my cyan vignetting tests withte 15 and 12 mm heliars. they look horrible! also tested with behind-the-lens filtering. that gives a lot less vignetting but introduces an extreme focusing problem.

 

My take on purple/blacks with the 12mm and 15mm is learn to love purple. I don't think that purple tee shirts are a big problem with the ultrawides. Rarely do you use them for formal work, like wedding or funerals where black has to be black. And there is always Jamies profile when you absolutely need it.

 

The other problem with filters on the ultrawides is the massive amount of cyan vignetting that you are going to get. Not to mention the huge size of the filter. I will put up with a few purple penquins before I would put a filter on one of these babies.

 

Rex

[ho_co]

Not to mention the huge size of the filter. I will put up with a few purple penquins before I would put a filter on one of these babies.

Rex--

You keep coming up with good ideas! The forum should have some purple penguin stuffed toys made. And Leica could give one to each purchaser of three IR filters.

 

--HC

[jonoslack]

My take on purple/blacks with the 12mm and 15mm is learn to love purple. I don't think that purple tee shirts are a big problem with the ultrawides. Rarely do you use them for formal work, like wedding or funerals where black has to be black. And there is always Jamies profile when you absolutely need it.

 

The other problem with filters on the ultrawides is the massive amount of cyan vignetting that you are going to get. Not to mention the huge size of the filter. I will put up with a few purple penquins before I would put a filter on one of these babies.

 

Rex

 

Hi Rex - I quite agree here - interestingly, a casual walk around Norwich in the rain (with camera firmly in bag) made me realise that a large proportion of the world actually DO wear magenta clothes - it takes all types (and immediate apologies to anyone with a purple singlet).

[marknorton]

The red male thread is bizarre too and the filter decision must have been taken before they realised an IR filter was going to be required. The filter is 67mm and the lens diameter is 54mm, so you can imagine it will effectively be a step up ring with a 67mm female thread on the front and a (say) 54mm female thread on the back. No lens cap to fit the front of the filter, no hood to fit into the filter, all in all a bit of a kludge.

 

For the M8 with its restricted angle of view, I think there should be an alternative filter/lens hood/lens cap offering.

 

Looking at those two images, and keeping in mind that CV costs 1/10 of the TE, really underscores what good value the CV is.

[marknorton]

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I didn't expect the lens to pass information to the body via the bayonet flange. I suppose the lens will appear simply as Tri-Elmar 16/18/21 in the EXIF data, no matter what the focal length.

 

Was the camera set to recognize the zebra coding of the lens? That would help explain what looks to me like lesser vignetting of the Tri-Elmar.

 

What I do not understand is how they can correct for red vignetting with this lens when we know it gets progressively worse the wider you go. If they fix it at 21mm, how is it going to be at 16mm?

 

It may be the sensor vignetting doesn not change substantially with focal length but the red vignetting is filter dependent.

 

If they are not going to change the coding for the lens, not going to use the frame selector but are trying to correct for red vignetting, the only way I can see them doing it is with a menu selection for this lens, which would then open the floodgates for menu selections for other specific Leica lenses, even possibly the ability to "teach" the camera about third party lenses.

[lars_bergquist]

There should be a better solution to IR filtering of wide angle lenses than huge outboard filters. An inside filter revolver would not be a good idea with interference type filters as these reflect quite a lot of light (see the now-famous red glare) which might bounce around inside the lens. But would it be impossible to put the interference coating on the outside of the front lens itself? That may well reduce or abolish cyan vignetting too.

 

The old man from the Age of Yellow Filters

[marknorton]

I've emailed Leica UK, hopeful they will understand my comment, that Leica should produce a custom filter for this lens which screws on to the front of the lens and then presents the same male thread for the lens hood. It would vignette for film but I think it would be fine for the M8 and does away with the klutsy filter carrier.

 

 

This is a pre-production version of the new 16-18-21 mm leica tri-elmar lens. I could play with it for a sunday afternoon thanks to my exellent leica dealer Foto Nivo Schweitzer in Amsterdam.

 

Interesting to note that the focusing goes till 50cm (rf coupling till 70cm of course). the scale runs even further so you can read depth of field. perfect!

 

i took this image with an m8 and a 65mm elmar on bellows w visoflex 3. interesting trivia: the black of the leica lens reflects ir and turns out slightly reddish with the m8. compare the color of the lens cap to that of the lens itself.

 

more worrysome is the fact that this lens does not have filter thread. you have to buy a special filter adapter from leica and then you can fit 67mm filters on it. Bestellnummer: 14473. about $50 extra again...

 

but it's a very nice lens. i'll post some images here later.

[blovitch]

>>Leica has an odd history with filters.

 

I think this may be changing very soon...

[macusque]

Thanks Willem

 

What aperture did you use for the comparison shots ?

I looked at the originals and while TE has more distortion, it has less vignetting and sharper corners, with less CA.

In the center they are equal, but looking at the right edge you can clearly see that the TE is a better performer, sharpness wise.

 

I've emailed Leica UK, hopeful they will understand my comment, that Leica should produce a custom filter for this lens which screws on to the front of the lens and then presents the same male thread for the lens hood. It would vignette for film but I think it would be fine for the M8 and does away with the klutsy filter carrier.

 

Nice idea, Mark.

And giving with film you don't need a permanent (IR) attached filetr, I guess it could be done without too much trouble.

[willemvelthoven]

Thanks Willem

 

What aperture did you use for the comparison shots ?

 

5.6

[ChrisC]

Mark - That seems a sensible idea to me. For situations when IR filtering is essential, it is probable that using a lens hood is vital. Are we looking at even more delay in releasing this lens?

 

..................Chris

 

......... Leica should produce a custom filter for this lens which screws on to the front of the lens and then presents the same male thread for the lens hood. .

[marknorton]

I've emailed Leica UK, hopeful they will understand my comment, that Leica should produce a custom filter for this lens which screws on to the front of the lens and then presents the same male thread for the lens hood. It would vignette for film but I think it would be fine for the M8 and does away with the klutsy filter carrier.

 

Something like this...

 

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[Guest magyarman]

Please Willemvelthoven, can you tell what is position of frame line handle when fixed this lens to M camera? I like to know this because if can engravure adaptator rink with 6bit like this lens 6bit, than make M8 to see CV 4,5/15mm. Bat M8 must also has same position of frame line handle plus 6bit. Thank you for informations!

[marknorton]

You cannot engrave any LTM adapter I've seen because there's no metal fully covering the lens coding sensor.

[Guest magyarman]

This you completely wrong! Some of originel Leitz adaptator rink has fully metal circle except 3 small half of circle for remover feets on lenscap. Other rinks has half part of circle cut away. I have 2 types, sorry I cannot put foto here because I have not place on internet for keep fotos.

[marknorton]

I said "any LTM adapter I've seen"....

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[rvaubel]

You cannot engrave any LTM adapter I've seen because there's no metal fully covering the lens coding sensor.

 

The early Leitz adapters did not have the cutout. If this coding non-Leica lenes thing takes off, you can bet a full adapter will be manufactured WITH machined dots for the self coding do it yourselfer.

 

If there were enough people interested, I would machine a bunch myself.

 

Rex

[marknorton]

Rex, how's about machining the filter holder I've sketched??