M8 Under the weather...

[peterb]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I do not have the M8 yet. I'm saving my box tops and reading these threads vicariously until I do have enough for one (along with a 24mm and Noctilux, yessssss!!!!!).

 

The M6 I previously owned (and idiotically sold on Ebay when Leica announced there was no way they could make a Digital M!) would be used occaisionally under some awful conditions (like mist, rain, snow, etc.) with nary a problem. I would try to keep things as dry as possible and if things did get a little too wet, I would quickly dry things. In the years I owned the camera there was never one problem. And that camera had been taken all over the globe to some of most meteorlogically and environmentally nastiest places on earth. The brochure would brag about the extreme conditions the camera would be tested to ensure reliability "even whilst wearing gloves".

 

Of course since I was dealing with film and totally mechanical assemblages, performance-wise, I never encountered a problem. Even if a few drops of water did manage to hit the housing or splash upon a metal against metal interfaces, quickly drying things addressed any potential damage (metering electronics never seemed to be threatened by these watery onslaughts from time to time). The margin of safety, if you will, was quite forgiving on a non-digital camera.

 

But here's my question. Briefly, I owned a Ricoh GR D, and took it on a trip to the Canadian Rockies this summer. It rained a little on one of my outings and, despite my usual care under these conditions, the LCD got a few water droplets along one of the edges and was completely destroyed and had to be replaced. Even though I quickly daubed the drop or two that had landed on the LCD's edge, capillary action had occured and it was too late to save the screen. The Ricoh was supposed to be well sealed along the lines of higher priced (read more robust) cameras but all it took was one drop of water to take it out. (I had two similar experiences with the LCD on a cell phone that was in my pocket during a brief shower and even though the phone was dry for the most part (and enclosed in clam like housing) the LCD was destroyed and the phone had to be replaced.)

 

Now I know the M8 certainly has good seals and I'm impressed that the bottom plate was designed to protect both the battery and the SD card from overhead attacks from the elements and that there are elaborate seals by the shutter button as before to protect circuitry there...BUT..when there are components like an LCD protruding out the back on the outside that will go awry when placed in contact with even ONE molecule of H2O has anyone used the M8 in inclement weather yet?

 

Regards,

 

Peter

[carstenw]

I don't know the answer to your question, but there have been reports of dust creeping under the edge of the screen, so perhaps that gives a hint.

[scott kirkpatrick]

There were some pictures a while back of tape on all sides of the M8's lcd to prevent what happened to your GR-D. I just took a look at my GR-D and it looks much tighter than the plastic exposure on the M8, I'm surprised that one drop could knock it out. Both cameras have wheels, buttons and knobs that will not be perfectly sealed. I think an umbrella is in order.

 

This is a complaint that Sean Reid voiced to Leica two years ago, but they had too much on their plate already. Maybe in the M9, but don't let it stop you.

 

scott

[sean_reid]

As Scott says, when Leica asked for my thoughts about this camera two years ago I stressed the importance of weather seals. This is something I've stressed again and again over the past few years in my reviews of professional cameras (designed to be used for, among other things, photojournalism). I also discussed it in my first review of the M8. It seems that some photographers don't yet realize how important this is or how different an M8 (which is a computer in a traditional body) is from something like an M6 or, especially, an M3. Over the next couple of years, we'll see how well the M8 does in bad weather and I hope that it acquits itself well. My fear, however, is that it will not be a camera that one can use confidentally in rain and snow.

 

So far, Canon, Nikon, Olympus and now Pentax have all recognized the importance of including environmental seals in their professional bodies. Unlike many features designed to sell more digital cameras, this is one aspect that really matters to professional and amateur photographers who keep their cameras with them and who shoot in all kinds of conditions. For those of us who work like that, myself included, this is very important. Photographers who've never worked with sealed cameras may wonder how well they actually work. I can say that I've shot extensively with both a Canon 1Ds and an Olympus E1 in heavy rain and snow with no adverse effects.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Asher Kelman]

Sean,

 

In that respect, do you think the weather sealing on the new Pentax 10D, a small camera with great new pancake lenses, will validate itself with Pro Photgraphers?

 

Or not, in that it's too late for Pentax and ther'es no pent up feelings as with Leica users?

 

Asher

 

The Open Photography Forums Initiative

[Jamie Roberts]

I could not agree more wholeheartedly with Sean here.

 

One of the reasons, primarily as event photographers, we went the 1d2 / 1ds2 route when we switched from MF film was to have something we could haul out in any conditions, pretty much.

 

There have been reports of pros showering with their 1ds2 to wash salt-water off the camera, and one report I read of the camera going into the sea with the photographer (everyone was ok) and the camera--after rinsing--was ok without further intervention from Canon.

 

Canon really gets this; I'm not sure Leica does yet.

 

(having said all that--I shot my M8 in the pouring rain the other day. Yes, I ran in and out of awnings, but no umbrella, no problem with the M8, despite the fact it got very wet).

[marknorton]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I think the top and bottom panels seal quite well - the argument that the bottom plate protects the camera will apply to the top panel as well. There are some potential weak points - the shutter dial, the power on-off switch/shutter release and the frame selection lever. The ingress of dust into someone's display here is not good.

 

Difficult to see without taking the camera apart but the hole in the top panel for the shutter dial is not round as you'd expect but rectangular with curved ends, tightly filled by the selector switch protruding through it. I don't think water on the top panel is going to enter the camera through this route very easily. The shutter release looks to be a different story.

 

I'm sure it's correct to think of the camera as weather resistant but not weather proof.

[Guest smep_reloaded]

For a 5000,-$ professional camera it shouldn´t be a question if it is possible to shoot in rain.

 

I had no problems with my Nikon D2X and the D70 while shooting U2 20 minutes in heavy rain.

 

U2 munich

 

Stefan

[jrc]

This is a serious question, so don't throw bricks -- do you think it would be possible to do some careful sealing around the LCD with something like ordinary hardware-store silicone?

 

JC

[carstenw]

This is a serious question, so don't throw bricks -- do you think it would be possible to do some careful sealing around the LCD with something like ordinary hardware-store silicone?

 

JC

I have been thinking about that myself. I think that the top cover has proven itself over decades of photojournalist abuse, but the back cover is a different story. If anyone works up the guts to try this, please report!

 

Another possibility would be to get one of those transparent LCD protectors, like a sticker, and apply it oversized. I am not planning to shower with my M8, but would like to use it in the rain.

[thrid]

As Scott says, when Leica asked for my thoughts about this camera two years ago I stressed the importance of weather seals. This is something I've stressed again and again over the past few years in my reviews of professional cameras (designed to be used for, among other things, photojournalism).

 

I couldn't agree more and it looks like my worst fears have come true. The camera isn't weather sealed, which personally I think was an idiotic move on Leica's part.

 

If I was a professional I would have serious second thoughts about dropping $5000 on a electronic camera that wasn't sealed. Heck I have serious concerns myself and I don't make a living as a shooter.

 

It was bad enough with the mechanical cameras, but at least they could be dried out and salvaged, but that's obviously not an option with the M8.

 

I shot a photo-essay in New Orleans this spring and between the dust that was as fine as talcum powder and the spring rain I was juggling umbrellas and plastic bags, trying to keep my gear dry. Ultimately I ended up supplementing my Leica kit with a Canon 1-v, which is heavily sealed against moisture and dust.

 

I mentioned this to a Leica rep and the whole issue seemed to go over his head. He didn't seem to think it was a big problem.

[rvaubel]

I have been thinking about that myself. I think that the top cover has proven itself over decades of photojournalist abuse, but the back cover is a different story. If anyone works up the guts to try this, please report!

 

Another possibility would be to get one of those transparent LCD protectors, like a sticker, and apply it oversized. I am not planning to shower with my M8, but would like to use it in the rain.

 

Carstenw

I use about $10,000 worth of 3M protective tape per year in my work. With the tape applied, you can steam clean a polished metal surface without any water intruding. Plus it leaves no resudue when you remove it. I can guarantee that no water, dust, etc, would intrude under this stuff.

 

Rex

[Jamie Roberts]

Rex--for those handy-guys among us--where exactly would you use the tape on the M8?

 

Thanks in advance for the tip!

[gesper]

What exactly is "3M protective tape" and where would one find it?

[wide.angle]

Carstenw

I use about $10,000 worth of 3M protective tape per year in my work. With the tape applied, you can steam clean a polished metal surface without any water intruding. Plus it leaves no resudue when you remove it. I can guarantee that no water, dust, etc, would intrude under this stuff.

 

Rex

 

Wow, that's a lot of tape! I'd be interested to see how you use that stuff too! And to see what it is.

[sean_reid]

Sean,

 

In that respect, do you think the weather sealing on the new Pentax 10D, a small camera with great new pancake lenses, will validate itself with Pro Photgraphers?

 

Or not, in that it's too late for Pentax and ther'es no pent up feelings as with Leica users?

 

Asher

 

The Open Photography Forums Initiative

 

I think it's useful and that it was a smart move on their part. There are only two other lightweight DSLRs with weather seals, the Nikon D200 and the Oly E-1. The E-1 doesn't do well at high ISO and the Nikon is more expensive than the Pentax. As such, I think Pentax found one way that it could distinguish itself.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

(having said all that--I shot my M8 in the pouring rain the other day. Yes, I ran in and out of awnings, but no umbrella, no problem with the M8, despite the fact it got very wet).

 

That's good news. How much exposure to rain did it get?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

For a 5000,-$ professional camera it shouldn´t be a question if it is possible to shoot in rain.

 

I had no problems with my Nikon D2X and the D70 while shooting U2 20 minutes in heavy rain.

 

U2 munich

 

Stefan

 

I agree for any pro camera that may be used in weather (ie: not studio cameras, etc.) The D70 is vulnerable too though but then it isn't sold as Nikon's pro camera.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

I have been thinking about that myself. I think that the top cover has proven itself over decades of photojournalist abuse.

 

But it's very important to remember that what's under that cover is now very different. This is not an M7 with respect to water tolerance. The innards of an M8 are very different from those of the film cameras so we can't assume that it will tolerate what they have. I think a cutaway of an M8 vs. an M7 would be illuminating to those who haven't yet realized how important this difference is.

 

Why didn't those glowing reviews bring this to our attention early on? <G>

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[canlogic]

Yes I wish the M8 was sealed (maybe the M9) but even my 1DMKII I try and be carefull with. I have used all my cameras since the mid 60's in weather and I just try and be carefull. I know that mechanical cameras are not the same as electronic ones but the early EOS line while film had a lot of electronics. Last sunday we had a pretty good wet snowfall and I was out with my M8. I kept it inside my jacket between shots and had no problems even though it got pretty wet.