piblondin Posted January 13, 2010 Share #1 Posted January 13, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everyone-- So, tonight I was shooting some tests on 1250 and 2500 ISO and saw some dead pixels. They would appear when the image first displayed on the LCD screen and then they would disappear. Same thing when I viewed most of the images on the computer. Somehow, the dead pixels would get resolved by the software. However, I was able to grab some images with this issue. It looks like I have four to six dead pixels, which appear either blue or red against a black background. The other problem I noticed is that sometimes, the dead pixels that are blue have faint blue lines that extend downward from the dead pixels to the bottom of the frame. I purchased my M8 last week and am already planning to return it to the dealer who will then send it along to Leica, NJ, because its rangefinder needs alignment. Now, I figure this issue with the pixels/lines will need repair as well. What is the fix for this issue and how should I describe it when I return the camera? Thanks again for your help! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Hi piblondin, Take a look here Another problem for this new M8 user--vertical lines, dead pixels. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Bo_Lorentzen Posted January 13, 2010 Share #2 Posted January 13, 2010 Every camera have some dead pixels. The real issue is if it is mapped correctly, in that case you will not be able to see it in the finished files. If you can in fact see the bad pixels once imported to your computer, then the camera need some TLC for that. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michali Posted January 13, 2010 Share #3 Posted January 13, 2010 The other problem I noticed is that sometimes, the dead pixels that are blue have faint blue lines that extend downward from the dead pixels to the bottom of the frame. I purchased my M8 last week and am already planning to return it to the dealer who will then send it along to Leica, NJ, because its rangefinder needs alignment. Now, I figure this issue with the pixels/lines will need repair as well. What is the fix for this issue and how should I describe it when I return the camera? Thanks again for your help! I had exactly the same scenario with my M8.2. I sent it into Leica in Germany describing it as follows: "When shooting at high ISO values there appears to be a dead pixel/s resulting in vertical blue line/s along the sensor and these lines are visible in my images". They will know exactly what you're talking about, it's not an isolated case. It's relatively straightforward for Leica to fix. AFAIK there are 2 possible fixes depending on the severity of the problem, one is mapping out the dead pixels out or a complete sensor replacement. In my case they replaced the sensor. Good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michali Posted January 13, 2010 Share #4 Posted January 13, 2010 I managed to find a picture of the blue vertical lines I got on my M8.2. Is this what you're getting? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/109458-another-problem-for-this-new-m8-user-vertical-lines-dead-pixels/?do=findComment&comment=1185219'>More sharing options...
piblondin Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share #5 Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) Bo, can you clarify what you mean by mapped out--specifically, when this takes place? Unfortunately, my MacBook Pro is in the shop this week for some repairs of its own, so the software I have available to be right now is very limited. I will use the images I link to below as an example. Note that they are scaled down to fit my screen. When I open the raw DNG file in Apple's Preview (first image) I see four dead pixels--three red and one blue--and two vertical lines. However, after I choose "Save As" and save the image as a JPEG, the dead pixels go away. However, the two vertical lines just to the left of the paper remain (second image). First image, DNG with dead pixels and lines in Preview: http://bit.ly/8ZICqO Saved as JPEG, no dead pixels, but still vertical lines: http://bit.ly/4nMv74 Given the fact that I already need a rangefinder alignment, should I have the camera sent off to Leica under the dealer's warranty for repair or should I see if they can swap if for a different, used M8? My instinct is that swapping for another camera could open a whole other can or worms, er problems, and I'm inclined to get the one I just bought fixed because it seems to have been hardly used at all by its previous owner and, therefore, should have a good life left in it--at least from a mechanical point of view. Thoughts on this question? Edited January 13, 2010 by piblondin Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted January 13, 2010 Share #6 Posted January 13, 2010 Hi, I had similar issues with my M8 when it was new. But a quick trip to the Leica General Hospital cured it. I would suggest that you had this camera fixed by Leica rather than exchanging it for another. Besides fixing the alignment and dead pixel issues, Leica will also check the entire camera and make any other adjustments that they deem necessary. If you did swap it for another camera, you might have the same problems anyway. This seems to be a pretty common problem, and most cameras require a trip to Leica to be re-educated at some point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 13, 2010 Share #7 Posted January 13, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) And a year guarantee thrown in.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share #8 Posted January 13, 2010 Nicole, thanks for your advice, which I will take. I'm going to shoot a little today and then send it off. And so the wait for my first M continues a few weeks longer. :-D Jaap, I wasn't sure if they would give a year warranty for the camera. That's great that they will following the repair! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 13, 2010 Share #9 Posted January 13, 2010 Just clarification, probably unnecessary: Leica has always given a one-year warranty after a billable repair. The don't extend the warranty each time you send in a camera that's already under warranty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pklein Posted January 13, 2010 Share #10 Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) I have four hot pixels on my M8, only one of which I noticed until I did a test. I always shoot RAW. So I found a free utility called "Pixel Fixer" that supports the M8. It quickly map the hot pixels out of DNG files, and rewrite them. It's here: Pixel Fixer | Hot pixel removal utliity Pixel Fixer needs a reference picture. With the M8, I took one with the lens cap on at ISO 1250 and 1/30. With too slow a shutter speed, the M8's dark frame subtraction kicks in and the hot pixels may disappear from the file. Too fast a shutter or too low an ISO, and the pixels may not glow brighter than the threshold needed for Pixel Fixer to map them. One I fed the above file to Pixel Fixer, it saved a configuration for the M8 that has each hot pixel marked. After I copy the DNGs off my SD card, I just point Pixel Fixer at the folder, press Go, and in a minute or two, I'm ready to start Capture One. If you shoot JPG, have a lot of hot pixels, or if using a utility like Pixel Fixer doesn't remedy the vertical lines that sometimes extend down from hot pixels, then a trip to Leica is warranted. In my case, Pixel Fixer seems to do the job. I have no connection with the author of the program or his company, I just use the product and found it to do the job nicely, with no fuss. I should note that my Olympus DSLR has a utility in its menu to detect and map out hot pixels in the camera, so no external software is needed. Edited January 13, 2010 by pklein Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlindstrom Posted January 14, 2010 Share #11 Posted January 14, 2010 I had this very problem with my 2nd hand M8 in november. My M8 was immediately sent to Solms for a 3 week repair.. they fixed the ccd and threw in a 100% cla including rangefinder and to top it all a 1 year warranty. This was all done under (I think) camera stores warranty, which means the camera store paid for it.. Anyways, I'm really happy with the outcome even if it meant I had to live whole 3 weeks without my "new" camera. Trust me, it was a painful wait! I got it back just week before xmas, which naturally was really nice //Juha Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted January 14, 2010 Juha, I just sent mine off, already looking forward to having it back. :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted January 14, 2010 Share #13 Posted January 14, 2010 Does anyone have any sense whether or how often the factory refurbished M8s show these faults? These threads make me nervous, but I haven't been able to find lines in my M8 files - my M8 was purchased as a refurb. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pklein Posted January 14, 2010 Share #14 Posted January 14, 2010 John: The more serious of the two "vertical line" problems requires a sensor replacement. If you're getting a refurb, then it would be covered under warrantee. In some respects a refurb is better than a new camera, because it's been "burned in" and used a little, and fixed (we hope) if it was broken in any way. So it might be less likely to have a problem. It *appears* that often, the blue vertical line one pixel wide is caused by the demosaicing algorithm in the camera or image software getting confused by a hot pixel on a dark background. This effect cascades down the sensor, because each pixel is afftected by its neighbor with respect to color reconstruction on a Bayer sensor. If you remove the hot pixel--either by Leica mapping it out, or by using external software like Pixel Fixer--the line disappears along with the hot pixel. That's what happened with my M8. I occasionally noticed one hot blue pixel. Recently, when I noticed a faint vertical blue line under that hot pixel on a high ISO shot, I decided it was time to do something. So I downloaded Pixel Fixer. It detected that hot blue pixel and three others (red and green) that I hadn't noticed. It was *not* mapping out the blue line below the blue hot pixel. I ran it on the entire folder from that day of shooting. The output files from Capture One showed the hot pixels gone, and had no more blue lines. Problem solved. All cameras have or develop a few hot pixels. Some manufacturers, like Olympus, include a "detect and map out" function in the camera menu. Leica, like some others, requires you to send the camera back to the mother ship to map out the pixels. Software like Pixel Fixer is an alternative quick way to deal with the problem, if you don't mind running a program on each folder of RAW files before you process them. Some RAW developers have a routine to deal with hot pixels, but I'm not familiar with which ones. The early M8s had another, more serious problem with a line down the sensor that wasn't just a matter of mapping out a hot pixel. That one requires a trip to Leica. We heard a fair amount about it in the first months of the M8's life. Not so much since then. (Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong here). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted January 19, 2010 Share #15 Posted January 19, 2010 That is very helpful - thank you for the detailed reply. John John: The more serious of the two "vertical line" problems requires a sensor replacement. If you're getting a refurb, then it would be covered under warrantee. In some respects a refurb is better than a new camera, because it's been "burned in" and used a little, and fixed (we hope) if it was broken in any way. So it might be less likely to have a problem. It *appears* that often, the blue vertical line one pixel wide is caused by the demosaicing algorithm in the camera or image software getting confused by a hot pixel on a dark background. This effect cascades down the sensor, because each pixel is afftected by its neighbor with respect to color reconstruction on a Bayer sensor. If you remove the hot pixel--either by Leica mapping it out, or by using external software like Pixel Fixer--the line disappears along with the hot pixel. That's what happened with my M8. I occasionally noticed one hot blue pixel. Recently, when I noticed a faint vertical blue line under that hot pixel on a high ISO shot, I decided it was time to do something. So I downloaded Pixel Fixer. It detected that hot blue pixel and three others (red and green) that I hadn't noticed. It was *not* mapping out the blue line below the blue hot pixel. I ran it on the entire folder from that day of shooting. The output files from Capture One showed the hot pixels gone, and had no more blue lines. Problem solved. All cameras have or develop a few hot pixels. Some manufacturers, like Olympus, include a "detect and map out" function in the camera menu. Leica, like some others, requires you to send the camera back to the mother ship to map out the pixels. Software like Pixel Fixer is an alternative quick way to deal with the problem, if you don't mind running a program on each folder of RAW files before you process them. Some RAW developers have a routine to deal with hot pixels, but I'm not familiar with which ones. The early M8s had another, more serious problem with a line down the sensor that wasn't just a matter of mapping out a hot pixel. That one requires a trip to Leica. We heard a fair amount about it in the first months of the M8's life. Not so much since then. (Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong here). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share #16 Posted March 17, 2010 I just received the camera back from Leica; unfortunately, they neglected to fix this issue. So, I'm going to need to send it in again or just give up on the M8. This is frustrating, as I purchased the camera right after New Year's and have yet to even shoot with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted March 17, 2010 Share #17 Posted March 17, 2010 I just received the camera back from Leica; unfortunately, they neglected to fix this issue. So, I'm going to need to send it in again or just give up on the M8. This is frustrating, as I purchased the camera right after New Year's and have yet to even shoot with it. As in you haven't enjoyed using the camera yet for some reason?? It was not clear to me what your "pixel issue" is but I guess they have adjusted the rangefinder? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 17, 2010 Share #18 Posted March 17, 2010 I don't quite see the issue either. The sensor seems to have some dead pixels that are mapped out by software - like any and all sensors. I suppose Leica checked whether it did. Do you see anything in your files in the RAW converter? That is what counts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share #19 Posted March 18, 2010 The dead pixels are mapped out by the software. However, the vertical lines of red/blue pixels are not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 18, 2010 Share #20 Posted March 18, 2010 If I were you I would start by mailing the files - and the fact they had the camera in their hands- to Leica Customer Service. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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