robsteve Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share #361  Posted December 13, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) colours look strange in the DMR shot. Really prefer the M8, even if the rock structure is to reddish. Still nicer than the ugly cyan heaven  I worked the 15mm shot a bit more, lightening the area with the fog and taking the blue out of the shadows.  I am looking at the DMR shot now and it is a bit cyan. I will work it up a bit more.  BTW, since my pictures are just links to my server, I just repost to the original image, so the original image will change too. Here I saved as a new name. The cyan sky color is a common complaint with the Leica images. I rathe rlike it and it seems to be true to life, though in the image you complained about, it was probably too polarized. I selected the sky and added a bit of red to it and lightened it up.  original:  edited: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 13, 2006 Share #362  Posted December 13, 2006 Guy, I deal with Tony Rose myself. Indeed I am waiting on a lens from him which should be in Vancouver in the next day or two. He is super!  The whole M8 experience has been an adventure to say the least, fun though. I plan on sending my M8 back next month - I am in no rush as I have not experienced any banding, streaking, or green blobs - although I know it is there. If I had been early enough I would have bought my M8 from Tony. I decided way to late - and then happened to find one at a local dealer demo in early November and made the move.  Cheers. Terry   Terri i know it has been frustrating for many folks and unfortunetly this happens with new releases i have done this 4 times the first kid on the block stuff. It can be draining but when the cloud lifts we should be in good shape but to be honest if I have not seen what this camera can crank out than i would have bailed a long time ago. The files are something else though that are on line with the DMR so i am going nowhere but forward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted December 13, 2006 Share #363 Â Posted December 13, 2006 I am not sure that I see a huge difference in resolution myself... It looks like some of the lighter details got lost in the higher exposure, but for example, the far trees seem similar. Do you have some crops? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share #364 Â Posted December 13, 2006 I am not sure that I see a huge difference in resolution myself... It looks like some of the lighter details got lost in the higher exposure, but for example, the far trees seem similar. Do you have some crops? Â Here are the crops, but it is probably just going to start some more arguing. Â They are unadjusted, just as the camera shot them. I was in different spots for each shot. In the main 15mm shot I posted, I dodged the El Capitan and increased the contrast, that is why iy looks sharper than it really is. These are full resolution crops. Since the 15mm was wider than the 21-35mm, the image of El Capitan is smaller. Â Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevme Posted December 13, 2006 Share #365  Posted December 13, 2006 I'm guessing white balance on this particular shot. The overall shot looks a bit green to me (look at the grey truck) so that would move Jack's blue shirt somewhere else  It might be your eyes Jamie. I have found that one of my eyes is "warmer" than the other. So what is the true color? At this level of color subtlety, I would not be surprised to find that some people see no difference or see the differences differently, as it were, because they have "warmer" or "colder" eyes, or one or each. For these folks, they would never understand what you are talking about. For example, I don't see as much green in the truck as you apparently do. It could also be my less trained eyes. In any event, perhaps we all have a mild form of color blindness which causes us to see the world at different color temperatures. In a worst case scenario, a photographer would have his own color temperature so far off that he would never be able to produce satisfactory prints for others. I bet there is even some science on this somewhere. When I first saw Jack's "blue" shirt", I did not notice the lavender cast -- maybe I was looking through my colder eye.  Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share #366  Posted December 13, 2006 It might be your eyes Jamie. I have found that one of my eyes is "warmer" than the other. So what is the true color? At this level of color subtlety, I would not be surprised to find that some people see no difference or see the differences differently, as it were, because they have "warmer" or "colder" eyes, or one or each. For these folks, they would never understand what you are talking about. For example, I don't see as much green in the truck as you apparently do. It could also be my less trained eyes. In any event, perhaps we all have a mild form of color blindness which causes us to see the world at different color temperatures. In a worst case scenario, a photographer would have his own color temperature so far off that he would never be able to produce satisfactory prints for others. I bet there is even some science on this somewhere. When I first saw Jack's "blue" shirt", I did not notice the lavender cast -- maybe I was looking through my colder eye. Steve  I also changed it and reposted the picture once I got home onto a real computer. Jamie was right, the colour was off, but still not that great even when closer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrycioni Posted December 13, 2006 Share #367 Â Posted December 13, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Guy, Â I am smiling. If I count the number of times being early in the product cycle has brought a little pain to my world - it would be a big number. I know from where you speak. Yes, indeed the M8 files are excellent - and like you - the M8 would be a distant memory if not for what is most often produces. The other upside is I am using a drawer full of glass that would not otherwise been used. Â Cheers. Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted December 13, 2006 Share #368 Â Posted December 13, 2006 I also changed it and reposted the picture once I got home onto a real computer. Jamie was right, the colour was off, but still not that great even when closer. Â But at least Jack's shirt is blue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 13, 2006 Share #369 Â Posted December 13, 2006 Guy, Â I am smiling. If I count the number of times being early in the product cycle has brought a little pain to my world - it would be a big number. I know from where you speak. Yes, indeed the M8 files are excellent - and like you - the M8 would be a distant memory if not for what is most often produces. The other upside is I am using a drawer full of glass that would not otherwise been used. Â Cheers. Terry. Â Â Terry I think that is the biggest key of all is the folks that have all this M glass sitting patiently to be used can be with awesome results. than there the virgins like me that sat and watched Leica out of the corner of my eye for many years than decidied to jump on the M8 , that be me. I had nothing to start with so it is a big investment with me , like the DMR was. So in my mind for the money it really has to produce otherwise i would just be ...........money away. nice thing is now i know i did not do that. And once again i bet on Leica and was succesfull. i wish i was that lucky at the track. LOL Â To be honestly hopefully in 6 months from now we can look back at this and get a chuckle. This is new to leica this is only there REAL second digital camera that they produced not someone else and we are living through there growing pains a little. Normal stuff in the digital world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macusque Posted December 13, 2006 Share #370 Â Posted December 13, 2006 These are full resolution crops. Since the 15mm was wider than the 21-35mm, the image of El Capitan is smaller. Â Â Â Robert, Â you are comparing a 15mm with a 21mm. Indeed the M8 crop needs to be enlarged 40% more to give the same dimension of the DMR one. Considering that difference I'd actually give the edge to the CV 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_Flesher Posted December 13, 2006 Share #371  Posted December 13, 2006 But at least Jack's shirt is blue  ROTFLMAO!!! I agree Jamie -- I was the one paying the bills on that shot!  On the subject of the green background, you are absolutely correct. Poor Robert was trying to post images from an older, non-color-managed IBM laptop and has probably created more confusion than he desired given the nature of the color issues with the M8 and everyone looking specifically for them...  Robert: Speaking of Leica color issues, I have to agree on the DMR cyan sky above -- it looks way off on my CM displays (even the re-posted version) especially where the obvious polarizer sine-wave effect kicks in. IMO it looks pretty good now down at the horizon, so maybe you need a special profile if you are going to use the polarizer... By contrast, the M8 is actually a slight tad magenta, but far preferable IMO to the gross cyan in the DMR shot. FWIW and IMO only, I think the difference on the DMR is more than "artist's perogative" on color can cover Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share #372  Posted December 13, 2006 Robert: Speaking of Leica color issues, I have to agree on the DMR cyan sky above -- it looks way off on my CM displays (even the re-posted version) especially where the obvious polarizer sine-wave effect kicks in. IMO it looks pretty good down at the horizon. By contrast, the M8 is actually a slight tad magenta, but far preferable to the gross cyan in the DMR shot. FWIW and IMO only, I think the difference on the DMR is more than "artist's perogative" on color can cover  I noticed that when I made a big adjustment to it in Photoshop and then reposted, it didn't change as much on the web. It may be a colour space thing with the DMR. The sky colour produced by a DMR may just not map to sRGB very well.  The crops had no color correction in them, just right out of the dng file, not my photoshopped tiff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share #373 Â Posted December 13, 2006 Robert, Â you are comparing a 15mm with a 21mm. Indeed the M8 crop needs to be enlarged 40% more to give the same dimension of the DMR one. Considering that difference I'd actually give the edge to the CV 15 Â I think that was what I was saying. A 15mm doesn't have the resolution to get the fine detail in the mountain. It seems to get the coarse detail fine. Â Remember, we are comparing it to the 21-35mm near the 21mm setting, which is the worst performing position of the lens. Â I should have brought my 19mm for the R, but I didn't realize I needed that wide. I thought Yosemite was big wide open spaces, but the area in the valley floor really isn't that big or wide open. Â Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 13, 2006 Share #374 Â Posted December 13, 2006 Robert throw those damn gradient filters away, just do a bracket and than merge them your much better off. For me a polarizer is like the kiss of the darkness. my skies would turn black it is so blue in Arizona i simple never use them anymore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 13, 2006 Share #375  Posted December 13, 2006 I think that was what I was saying. A 15mm doesn't have the resolution to get the fine detail in the mountain. It seems to get the coarse detail fine. Remember, we are comparing it to the 21-35mm near the 21mm setting, which is the worst performing position of the lens.  I should have brought my 19mm for the R, but I didn't realize I needed that wide. I thought Yosemite was big wide open spaces, but the area in the valley floor really isn't that big or wide open.  Robert  Hello i gave you a M8 to work with. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macusque Posted December 13, 2006 Share #376 Â Posted December 13, 2006 Robert, Â sorry if I turned out pedantic... Â It's only that I bought the M8 mainly for wides, so I couldn't think about the 15 being worse than a zoom at its worst setting... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 13, 2006 Share #377 Â Posted December 13, 2006 Now Jack is thinking of getting a M8 again. Okay boys work him over , i have got to go to a dinner. Â Â I am Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo Bad to hang with. ROTFLMAO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share #378  Posted December 13, 2006 Now Jack is thinking of getting a M8 again. Okay boys work him over , i have got to go to a dinner.  I am Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo Bad to hang with. ROTFLMAO   After over 21,000 views of this thread I hoped we had convinced at least one person the M8 is worth owning  Jack didn't even use the M8 we had at Yosemite! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_Flesher Posted December 14, 2006 Share #379  Posted December 14, 2006 Now Jack is thinking of getting a M8 again. Okay boys work him over , i have got to go to a dinner.  I am Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo Bad to hang with. ROTFLMAO  Oh mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn! And here I thought you were my friend! ROTFLMAO! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecter Posted December 14, 2006 Share #380  Posted December 14, 2006 After over 21,000 views of this thread I hoped we had convinced at least one person the M8 is worth owning  Jack didn't even use the M8 we had at Yosemite!  Pictures from a borrowed M8 Photo Gallery by Rob Martin at pbase.com  I liked it....  Processed in Lightroom, not touched in any other way other than to reduce the size.  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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